Gerrard since joining Villa

Kylegib said:
Yes I know and I am at a loss in how we expect to keep good managers if we're not going to back them. Gio must have made the club close to £100m with transfers, European final and qualifying for the champions league it's shocking the board haven't backed him.
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Truthfully I think it's only a matter of time before another club comes calling for Gio and we might find ourselves in another Gerrard type situation again.

For a Scottish club to beat Dortmund, Red Star, Braga, RB Leipzig and PSV in the space of several months is relatively unheard of and will make a lot of owners sit up and take notice.
 
Kylegib said:
So our finances were in such a bad state we couldn't back a league winning manager but our board allowed that manager to dictate that these bids be rejected, you don't actually believe that surely and if you do?
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There's this new fangled thing the kids are doing called "Budgeting".

It's amazing, apparently look at how much revenue is coming in, what your current expenses on assets are and then decide how much money can be spent on other things in a period of time.

Strangely, it means that if you set aside a bunch of money for one purpose and tie it up in an asset that you are unwilling to sell, that money can't then be used for another asset and you also cannot generate any revenue from the asset to spend on other assets.

Fascinating stuff this 'budgeting'.
 
I think tomorrow is a free hit given the opposition and expected outcome, anything other than that and Villa have bagged a big result.

Interestingly after this Villa play Leicester and Gerrard could be in a position to quicken Brendan Rodgers increasingly likely exit.
 
Clarence said:
History repeating.
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Not really comparable.

Gerrard never got us champions league cash and we didn’t have the money to go out and spend more. We were losing money.

This time around we have gained Champions League cash and just sold our biggest assets. Gio has more right to be annoyed than Gerrard did. Let’s see if he sneaks off in the middle of the night at the first sign of bright lights like Gerrard.
 
Mr_Miscellaneous said:
There's this new fangled thing the kids are doing called "Budgeting".

It's amazing, apparently look at how much revenue is coming in, what your current expenses on assets are and then decide how much money can be spent on other things in a period of time.

Strangely, it means that if you set aside a bunch of money for one purpose and tie it up in an asset that you are unwilling to sell, that money can't then be used for another asset and you also cannot generate any revenue from the asset to spend on other assets.

Fascinating stuff this 'budgeting'.
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There's also things called successful football clubs and their boards have the responsibility of keeping them successful and a good way of doing this is by keeping managers who are successful, that's fascinating aswell.
 
Macky said:
Not really comparable.

Gerrard never got us champions league cash and we didn’t have the money to go out and spend more. We were losing money.

This time around we have gained Champions League cash and just sold our biggest assets. Gio has more right to be annoyed than Gerrard did. Let’s see if he sneaks off in the middle of the night at the first sign of bright lights like Gerrard.
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Hopefully not but I'm quite sure there'll be a few clubs monitoring his situation, if only the board would back our successful managers and we wouldn't need to worry about that situation.
 
Kylegib said:
Hopefully not but I'm quite sure there'll be a few clubs monitoring his situation, if only the board would back our successful managers and we wouldn't need to worry about that situation.
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Are you now saying that you know the details of GvB’s contract? Maybe the board have backed him through the amount he can earn if we do well - that after all is the normal way of retaining employees.
 
Kylegib said:
No I'm not.
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So how can you say that the board are not supporting him financially when you don’t actually know? I assume that you have also seen the news this afternoon about us being one of two British clubs on UEFAs watchlist for financial fair play which means that we can’t increase our wage bill?
But let’s not let facts like these stop your incessant arguments that our Board don’t back our managers.
 
Fife flyer said:
So how can you say that the board are not supporting him financially when you don’t actually know? I assume that you have also seen the news this afternoon about us being one of two British clubs on UEFAs watchlist for financial fair play which means that we can’t increase our wage bill?
But let’s not let facts like these stop your incessant arguments that our Board don’t back our managers.
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I certainly don't disagree with the sentiment of Presbyterian rectitude, but our revenue has subsequently doubled since then, so this surely won't be a problem in the next few years ahead.
 
Fife flyer said:
So how can you say that the board are not supporting him financially when you don’t actually know? I assume that you have also seen the news this afternoon about us being one of two British clubs on UEFAs watchlist for financial fair play which means that we can’t increase our wage bill?
But let’s not let facts like these stop your incessant arguments that our Board don’t back our managers.
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No I didn't see that in the news. I take it this is us going to be another test case or something especially when you see other clubs don't seem to have any problems signing players.
 
In the Scottish Premiership the only tough games Gerrard had was against the dhims, the 10 other teams in the Scottish Premiership are about the same standard as English League 1 or 2 teams.

Now he can't handle the pressure when every game is tough in the EPL.
 
Kylegib said:
No I didn't see that in the news. I take it this is us going to be another test case or something especially when you see other clubs don't seem to have any problems signing players.
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No we are not a test case it is an established regulation and a number of clubs have been fined. Something the Board have to be very aware of when signing players. It’s not only about transfer fees. The Board backed Gerrard after 55 by signing Lundstram and paying him big wages which will now be having an affect on who else we can pay. But hey you will know all about this as you constantly post about how we should have signed more players
 
thethunderer said:
I certainly don't disagree with the sentiment of Presbyterian rectitude, but our revenue has subsequently doubled since then, so this surely won't be a problem in the next few years ahead.
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From what I read our wage bill has increased too and I think the issue is that we can’t assume future income levels when giving players long term contracts.
That’s for another thread though - this thread is about Gerrard and Villa
 
I think it's a more challenging gig than he imagined, even going to a club that can invest heavily in the squad will be a struggle.
If you make a mistake in the EPL the players punish you as they are of a better standard than the SPFL.
Gerrard knows the league well as a player but it's a lot tougher as a manager.
 
Fife flyer said:
From what I read our wage bill has increased too and I think the issue is that we can’t assume future income levels when giving players long term contracts.
That’s for another thread though - this thread is about Gerrard and Villa
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It might not be an issue going forward but I do agree that it does put a somewhat different light on Gerrard not being given more to spend, especially without the knowledge of a Europa Cup run to the final and qualification for the Champions League.
 
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Fife flyer said:
So how can you say that the board are not supporting him financially when you don’t actually know? I assume that you have also seen the news this afternoon about us being one of two British clubs on UEFAs watchlist for financial fair play which means that we can’t increase our wage bill?
But let’s not let facts like these stop your incessant arguments that our Board don’t back our managers.
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Because his loyalties lie with Gerrard and he wants to pretend he left because of the board (and not because we were only ever a vehicle for him to use to get a PL gig) and he’s prepared to die on that hill, even if it means using huge amounts of conjecture and knowing very little; completely disrespecting the board in the process. Guy doesn’t deserve the rescue job the board done, but then Rangers are clearly far down his list of priorities anyway so that shouldn’t be a surprise.

Might be worth reminding anyone just tuning in now that this joker says Gerrard may arguably go down as our greatest ever manager. That’s the extreme level of fanboyism and obsession we’re dealing with here. You’d think at some point he’d stop and question why so many people think he’s cuckoo and borderline creepy when it comes to this SG imagining.

But to suggest Gio hasn’t been backed when we’ve just spent good money bringing in Davies, Yilmaz, Matondo, Lawrence, Tillman, Colak and Souttar (before CL qualification), is such a slap in the face to the board, even more so when no one knows if attempts were made to get more players in for Gio and it just wasn’t possible. Pathetic stuff from entitled brats in general today. Like I said, some people aren’t interested in the practicalities of running a club, football transfers or value for money, they just want the credit card maxed out so they can feel the excitement of having shiny new toys.
 
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Gerrard not being backed seems to be a myth that keeps growing legs.

£7m on Kent and signings like Hagi, Helander, Roofe and Aribo not coming cheap.

Choosing not to sell players was the right decision and won us 55 but sometimes you need to take your medicine in the short term and deal with it.

One managers negative outlook on the club stank the place out and led to him ruining his career thinking the grass was greener.

The other manager came in and never complained once and used his talent to take this group to a Europa League Final.
 
Saturnblue said:
In the Scottish Premiership the only tough games Gerrard had was against the dhims, the 10 other teams in the Scottish Premiership are about the same standard as English League 1 or 2 teams.

Now he can't handle the pressure when every game is tough in the EPL.
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Sounds a bit like something you would hear on talksport, bt or sky where they couldnt tell you all the teams in our league.

Theres plenty of games Villa will play that are against teams they could and maybe even should beat ofcourse at the moment the team is struggling so none of them are going to be easy.

Not sure being manager of Villa and playing bottom half sides is a tougher task than taking Rangers to Hibs, Hearts or even Aberdeen and getting the results he did in europe.

And the other point is that at Ibrox you need to compete with the tims and challenge for the title at Villa if he gets mid-table the pundits on sky will be saying hes done a smashing job.
 
Pirlo said:
Because his loyalties lie with Gerrard and he wants to pretend he left because of the board (and not because we were only ever a vehicle for him to use to get a PL gig) and he’s prepared to die on that hill, even if it means using huge amounts of conjecture and knowing very little; completely disrespecting the board in the process. Guy doesn’t deserve the rescue job the board done, but then Rangers are clearly far down his list of priorities anyway so that shouldn’t be a surprise.

Might be worth reminding anyone just tuning in now that this joker says Gerrard may arguably go down as our greatest ever manager. That’s the extreme level of fanboyism and obsession we’re dealing with here. You’d think at some point he’d stop and question why so many people think he’s cuckoo and borderline creepy when it comes to this SG imagining.

But to suggest Gio hasn’t been backed when we’ve just spent good money bringing in Davies, Yilmaz, Matondo, Lawrence, Tillman, Colak and Souttar (before CL qualification), is such a slap in the face to the board, even more so when no one know so if attempts were made to get more players in for Gio and it just wasn’t possible. Pathetic stuff from entitled brats in general today. Like I said, some people aren’t interested in the practicalities of football transfers or value for money, they just want the credit card maxed out so they can feel the excitement of having shiny new toys.
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Gerrard isn’t our greatest ever manager but the job he done in his first three years is right up there with the best three year spell of any manager in our history.

To take us from where we were, with limited funds, to where he left us after three years is possibly the biggest three year improvement we’ve ever had.
 
Saturnblue said:
In the Scottish Premiership the only tough games Gerrard had was against the dhims, the 10 other teams in the Scottish Premiership are about the same standard as English League 1 or 2 teams.

Now he can't handle the pressure when every game is tough in the EPL.
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Your post makes zero sense because Gerrard’s issue wasn’t the high pressure games like Celtic. Infact he done best in old firms. Back to the drawing board with that example. His issue was breaking teams stuffy teams down.
 
Xtal said:
Gerrard not being backed seems to be a myth that keeps growing legs.

£7m on Kent and signings like Hagi, Helander, Roofe and Aribo not coming cheap.

Choosing not to sell players was the right decision and won us 55 but sometimes you need to take your medicine in the short term and deal with it.

One managers negative outlook on the club stank the place out and led to him ruining his career thinking the grass was greener.

The other manager came in and never complained once and used his talent to take this group to a Europa League Final.
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Rewriting history. Gerrard was over the moon when winning the league. A month later his mood shifted massively. Something obviously changed and both parties seemed like they were both happy to part ways.
 
Jonathan E said:
History will be much kinder to Steven Gerrard than this thread.

A Rangers legend who delivered (against the odds) one of the most important title wins in our history and who had a European record of performance beyond criticism.
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Exactly Europa league football 3/4 seasons in a row which eventually led to the final under Gio. Without Gerrard’s good work Seville never happens and vice versa with Gio.
 
Pirlo said:
Because his loyalties lie with Gerrard and he wants to pretend he left because of the board (and not because we were only ever a vehicle for him to use to get a PL gig) and he’s prepared to die on that hill, even if it means using huge amounts of conjecture and knowing very little; completely disrespecting the board in the process. Guy doesn’t deserve the rescue job the board done, but then Rangers are clearly far down his list of priorities anyway so that shouldn’t be a surprise.

Might be worth reminding anyone just tuning in now that this joker says Gerrard may arguably go down as our greatest ever manager. That’s the extreme level of fanboyism and obsession we’re dealing with here. You’d think at some point he’d stop and question why so many people think he’s cuckoo and borderline creepy when it comes to this SG imagining.

But to suggest Gio hasn’t been backed when we’ve just spent good money bringing in Davies, Yilmaz, Matondo, Lawrence, Tillman, Colak and Souttar (before CL qualification), is such a slap in the face to the board, even more so when no one knows if attempts were made to get more players in for Gio and it just wasn’t possible. Pathetic stuff from entitled brats in general today. Like I said, some people aren’t interested in the practicalities of running a club, football transfers or value for money, they just want the credit card maxed out so they can feel the excitement of having shiny new toys.
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Add in resigning Davis, Arfield and McGregor.
4 more years for Goldson.
New deal for Tav.
Contract talks still ongoing with Kent and Morelos.

I think the problem here is the Champ Managers see Bassey being sold for £20m and CL qualification being talked about at bring in £30m, so therefore we need to spend that £50m immediately.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Depends how the game goes. If it's a 6 or 7 then he would be gone. And that is entirely possible. They are dreadful.
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I don’t know how you even try and plan for Haaland if you’re Gerrard and you have that defence.

Very possible he could get another hat-trick tomorrow.
 
Chester Loyal said:
Gerrard isn’t our greatest ever manager but the job he done in his first three years is right up there with the best three year spell of any manager in our history.

To take us from where we were, with limited funds, to where he left us after three years is possibly the biggest three year improvement we’ve ever had.
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Which doesn’t mean as much as you’d think given the important detail of him taking over from potentially the 2 worst managers we’ve ever had. Even a wet wipe like Derek McInnes would have taken a fair bit further forward from where we were when Murty finally finished up.
 
GazzaG said:
Add in resigning Davis, Arfield and McGregor.
4 more years for Goldson.
New deal for Tav.
Contract talks still ongoing with Kent and Morelos.

I think the problem here is the Champ Managers see Bassey being sold for £20m and CL qualification being talked about at bring in £30m, so therefore we need to spend that £50m immediately.
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Fans tend to ignore wages too and only look at transfer fees. Lundstram is on a huge wage, he was signed pre Malmö disaster.
 
Kylegib said:
All I was pointing out was Gerrard had done fantastically well with us especially the league winning season going undefeated and accumulating a record number of points.
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Gerrard underachieved, he could and should have wonkre trophys.
That doesn't the away the fact that he also done a tremendous job with us.
Anyone that doesn't think Gerrard done a brilliant job has a short memory of where we were.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
Sounds a bit like something you would hear on talksport, bt or sky where they couldnt tell you all the teams in our league.

Theres plenty of games Villa will play that are against teams they could and maybe even should beat ofcourse at the moment the team is struggling so none of them are going to be easy.

Not sure being manager of Villa and playing bottom half sides is a tougher task than taking Rangers to Hibs, Hearts or even Aberdeen and getting the results he did in europe.

And the other point is that at Ibrox you need to compete with the tims and challenge for the title at Villa if he gets mid-table the pundits on sky will be saying hes done a smashing job.
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Lots of English people call the Scottish Premiership a farmers league, an exaggeration but they're not far from the truth. There are 2 good teams and 10 shite teams. Not a big test of managerial ability. Scottish teams losing to Sligo Rovers ffs...

Look at Neil Lennon he was really successful in Scotland winning 5 leagues and 5 cups but he is a shite manager. Gerrard won 1 league and 0 cups.
 
Pirlo said:
Which doesn’t mean as much as you’d think given the important detail of him taking over from potentially the 2 worst managers we’ve ever had. Even a wet wipe like Derek McInnes would have taken a fair bit further forward from where we were when Murty finally finished up.
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Do you think Derek McInnes would have came in and brought up the standards like Gerrard did? By that, I mean rehauling the data and recruitment side; insisting on the facilities being improved behind the scenes; and generally instilling a more professional mentality? Likewise, would he have galvanised the support to the point we thought we could stand up to Rodgers' all-conquering Celtic within the space of six months?

I'm not so sure.

I think these debates always go a bit awry because Gerrard's contribution to Rangers can't solely be judged purely on what happened on the pitch. People who don't like him will counter that it's Rangers — it always comes down to trophies. Sure, historically that's true. But Gerrard took over an anomaly. This was a complete husk of a club that was utterly broken. We had finished 3rd. We were dispatched by farmers in Europe. Celtic had a hex over us that made us look competitive against O'Neill in the early '00s.

Did he disappoint in terms of actual silverware aside from 55? He did. But at the end of the day, he came here with one mission. He achieved it, and then more.
 
Pirlo said:
Which doesn’t mean as much as you’d think given the important detail of him taking over from potentially the 2 worst managers we’ve ever had. Even a wet wipe like Derek McInnes would have taken a fair bit further forward from where we were when Murty finally finished up.
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If you don’t think that means much then there’s no real point in discussing it further. Taking over from those two managers and immediately making us competitive should be worthy of praise, not criticism.

McInnes would never have had the success Gerrard had in Europe from day one and would’ve never had us beating Celtic on a regular basis either.
 
Saturnblue said:
Lots of English people call the Scottish Premiership a farmers league, an exaggeration but they're not far from the truth. There are 2 good teams and 10 shite teams. Not a big test of managerial ability. Scottish teams losing to Sligo Rovers ffs...

Look at Neil Lennon he was really successful in Scotland winning 5 leagues and 5 cups but he is a shite manager. Gerrard won 1 league and 0 cups.
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It was quite an important win and he also beat plenty of teams in europe that are probably better than the sides which these English fans get excited watching every week.

I cant really be arsed explaining what he done for Rangers mate if you think he was hopeless and it means sfa then no one is changing that view. Hes not left Villa yet he may still turn it around.

Remember to call it the farmers league and tell us what the English think of it if we win it this season.
 
Kylegib said:
What if it was because the board had promised to back him and then failed to do so.
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First, that is supposition.

Second, even if it were true, it doesn't excuse the manner of his departure. Consider this: After his injury, Katic got himself fit and, by all accounts, tried his best, but he didn't get many more chances to show what he could do for the first team. Maybe he really wasn't good enough, but regardless of that, he could have sulked, and sneaked away into the night - but he didn't.
 
themightyi said:
I don’t know how you even try and plan for Haaland if you’re Gerrard and you have that defence.

Very possible he could get another hat-trick tomorrow.
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Their defending for the second goal v Arsenal is embarrassing. Not making excuses for him as ultimately it's his job but some of the individual errors are horrendous. Can't see how he turns it around the team look completely lost.
 
Chester Loyal said:
If you don’t think that means much then there’s no real point in discussing it further. Taking over from those two managers and immediately making us competitive should be worthy of praise, not criticism.

McInnes would never have had the success Gerrard had in Europe from day one and would’ve never had us beating Celtic on a regular basis either.
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Well yeah I agree, because like I said, it would be really hard for even a decent manager to not make significant progress on where Pedro and Murty had us.

Also I didn’t say McInnes would have done as well as Gerrard, he clearly wouldn’t. I’ll bet he’d have done a lot better than Murty though.
 
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prenzlauerbear said:
Do you think Derek McInnes would have came in and brought up the standards like Gerrard did? By that, I mean rehauling the data and recruitment side; insisting on the facilities being improved behind the scenes; and generally instilling a more professional mentality? Likewise, would he have galvanised the support to the point we thought we could stand up to Rodgers' all-conquering Celtic within the space of six months?

I'm not so sure.

I think these debates always go a bit awry because Gerrard's contribution to Rangers can't solely be judged purely on what happened on the pitch. People who don't like him will counter that it's Rangers — it always comes down to trophies. Sure, historically that's true. But Gerrard took over an anomaly. This was a complete husk of a club that was utterly broken. We had finished 3rd. We were dispatched by farmers in Europe. Celtic had a hex over us that made us look competitive against O'Neill in the early '00s.

Did he disappoint in terms of actual silverware aside from 55? He did. But at the end of the day, he came here with one mission. He achieved it, and then more.
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As I said in the post above, McInnes couldn’t have done as well as Gerrard. All I was saying was he would have still made significant progress from where Pedro and Murty had us because they were both so far off the level required it was barley believable.

I think while I’m in this thread it’s important to remind everyone that I think over the piece Gerrard did a good job at Rangers, it’s just the elevation of that job due to his profile and the complete disrespect shown to the board that gets right on my tits. He did a good job (albeit I do think he was on his way out had covid not halted that second season), but all the chat he gave us fans was just sound bites from a media savvy man who knew the right things to say. That last season leaves a sour taste though and he gets off light from many fans IMO because his general application, demeanour and the manner of the exit wasn’t really acceptable.
 
Pirlo said:
Well yeah I agree, because like I said, if would be really hard for even a decent manager to not make significant progress on where Pedro and Murty had us.

Also I didn’t say McInnes would have done as well as Gerrard, he clearly wouldn’t. I’ll bet he’d have done a lot better than Murty though.
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Just because someone else might have done it shouldn’t be a reason for talking the job Gerrard did down.
 
Supersonic2.0 said:
Interesting cheers for posting. I noticed Gerrard was playing a 4312 set up the other day to get 2 strikers in but playing with no width or wingers. Seems odd as when with us he never used 2 strikers. Infact that system with high full backs would have actually helped him do more damage up here!

I don’t know enough but the Mings stuff seemed weird, not sure why Gerrard would use his summer prep to start arguing with his captain? Then pick another one who is hardly the up and coming talent in the EPL. That and the fringe players being seperate sounds like he is determined to make the mood as shite as possible there. Odd stuff.
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He used the 4-3-1-2 a few times up here. Most notably the game we beat them 4-1
 
Pirlo said:
As I said in the post above, McInnes couldn’t have done as well as Gerrard. All I was saying was he would have still made significant progress from where Pedro and Murty had us because they were both so far off the level required it was barley believable.

I think while I’m in this thread it’s important to remind everyone that I think over the piece Gerrard did a good job at Rangers, it’s just the elevation of that job due to his profile and the complete disrespect shown to the board that gets right on my tits. He did a good job (albeit I do think he was on his way out had covid not halted that second season), but all the chat he gave us fans was just sound bites from a media savvy man who knew the right things to say. That last season leaves a sour taste though and he gets off light from many fans IMO because his general application, demeanour and the manner of the exit wasn’t really acceptable.
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He left us sitting 4 points clear at the top of the league, in the EL group stages for the 4th consecutive season and in the semi final of the league cup.
 
Supersonic2.0 said:
Rewriting history. Gerrard was over the moon when winning the league. A month later his mood shifted massively. Something obviously changed and both parties seemed like they were both happy to part ways.
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What happened was he started feeling sorry for himself after not having more to spend and his head went.

Completely reasonable to expect backing but maybe try selling players or getting past Malmö before blaming others.

It was an understandable concern handled poorly and Gio’s positive approach has kickstarted a much healthier era at the club that much is clear.
 
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