Its a vicious cycle

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sammy1872

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We again face the question this summer of how do we fund a rebuild if we dont win this league and get the ucl money. We need the money but to get it we need to win the league by beating a team who get the money by winning the last league and can fund their own signings. Maybe its better that after thid year the champions dont automatically qualify because its never us. Our recruitment basically needs to be 100% spot on and hope we get a few bargains which isnt sustainable
 
Going by the last 2 summers we generally spend around £15m. We've already commited £4m to Diomande. If we realistically want to address the biggest issue in our team, then it means we spend the rest of it on two serious quality centre backs. Meaning no Sima. No Cortes. No marquee no.9.
 
JC85 said:
Going by the last 2 summers we generally spend around £15m. We've already commited £4m to Diomande. If we realistically want to address the biggest issue in our team, then it means we spend the rest of it on two serious quality centre backs. Meaning no Sima. No Cortes. No marquee no.9.
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If we dont sign a no9 we may as well not turn up next season. I guess thats what i mean but we need 6/7 starting level players and thats before celtic spend in the sunmer. I cant see them making the same mistakes they did last summer. They will spend
 
JC85 said:
Going by the last 2 summers we generally spend around £15m. We've already commited £4m to Diomande. If we realistically want to address the biggest issue in our team, then it means we spend the rest of it on two serious quality centre backs. Meaning no Sima. No Cortes. No marquee no.9.
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2 CBS at 4m each.

Shankland 2m

1m on a diamond in the rough midfielder.

4m on diomande.

Then we splash the cash when lammers goes for 10m.
 
Get what we can for Tav, Goldson, Dowell, Lawrence, Davies, Dessers, Lammers, Wright and Matondo. Maybe Hagi as well.

Release Lundstrum, Jack, Roofe, Balogun, Borna, McLaughlin.

Maybe £15mil in transfer fees if we are lucky with a Saudi team paying a decent chunk for Tav. Stop handing out daft contracts and you are looking at another £5m in saved wages at least. Add that to our £15m annual spend we have around £35m to spend and basically a clean slate wagebill to play with.

15 players out, however half of them have barely contributed in minutes played. 8 players signed on £4-5m each, couple of bosmans and then loans to plug the gaps.

I appreciate this is pure wild fantasy and won't ever happen but I can always dream.
 
It’s going to take years to fully recover from Beale. Jack, Roofe, Borna, McLaughlin all certainly away for free. Lundstram, Balogun, Cortes, Sima and Silva likely also. Goldson absolutely now has to go. And I can see Davies, Lammers, Raskin, Dessers, Wright, Hagi all moved on for peanuts! Who does that leave us with? Barely a team we can put out far less decent depth. If the above go, we have

Butland, Tav (who should go), Souttar, Sterling, Yilmaz, Dowell, Diamonde, Cantwell, Matondo, McAusland and Danilo. That’s it - 11 senior players and a lot of them not good enough!

Do the fans have the patience to wait multiple transfer windows? Does the manager have the staying power for it? Add to all this, under Beale we allowed Kent, Morelos, Arfield, Hellander all go for free.
 
ecossebear said:
It’s going to take years to fully recover from Beale. Jack, Roofe, Borna, McLaughlin all certainly away for free. Lundstram, Balogun, Cortes, Sima and Silva likely also. Goldson absolutely now has to go. And I can see Davies, Lammers, Raskin, Dessers, Wright, Hagi all moved on for peanuts! Who does that leave us with? Barely a team we can put out far less decent depth. If the above go, we have

Butland, Tav (who should go), Souttar, Sterling, Yilmaz, Dowell, Diamonde, Cantwell, Matondo, McAusland and Danilo. That’s it - 11 senior players and a lot of them not good enough!

Do the fans have the patience to wait multiple transfer windows? Does the manager have the staying power for it? Add to all this, under Beale we allowed Kent, Morelos, Arfield, Hellander all go for free.
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No the fans dont. Celtic if they win the league will have 3 in a row. Do we just write off another 2/3 whilst we finally get the rebuild right. Thats what i meant by a vicious cycle. We either need to get really lucky or hope they go backwards which they have this season and yet likely still wont be enough. If clement starts next season the way gio did in 2022 or beale did in 2023 the fans will want him gone roughly by November again. No one cares about rebuilds if you tell them its gonna take years and celtic keep winning
 
lg1991 said:
Get what we can for Tav, Goldson, Dowell, Lawrence, Davies, Dessers, Lammers, Wright and Matondo. Maybe Hagi as well.

Release Lundstrum, Jack, Roofe, Balogun, Borna, McLaughlin.

Maybe £15mil in transfer fees if we are lucky with a Saudi team paying a decent chunk for Tav. Stop handing out daft contracts and you are looking at another £5m in saved wages at least. Add that to our £15m annual spend we have around £35m to spend and basically a clean slate wagebill to play with.

15 players out, however half of them have barely contributed in minutes played. 8 players signed on £4-5m each, couple of bosmans and then loans to plug the gaps.

I appreciate this is pure wild fantasy and won't ever happen but I can always dream.
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I can’t see us getting £15m for that lot to be honest. Unless the Saudis come in for Tav and Goldson we’ll probably be stuck with them as I doubt we could give them away for free. Dowell and Lawrence were free transfers to us and will probably be the same the other way. Davies is the sort of player we will announce in January his contract has been mutually terminated. Dessers we’ll take a huge loss on, Lammers we may make some money back on but not much. Wright we couldn’t give away in the summer so with a year less on his contact he’s another that will go for free. Hagi last year of his contact will be under £1m. Matondo maybe we get a couple of £m? So I think we’d be lucky if we make £3-4m from that lot. Sickeningly a lot of that will be paid out for installments for these guys!

The £15m annual spend isn’t an option, that £15m has to be found through player sales or Champions League money. Then even looking at the free transfer markets or loan markets, the signing on fees etc mean they cost a few million! Scunnered that only Butland and maybe Sterling do we have any sellable assets, and thats all on Beale!
 
mossybear said:
Signing a striker in January to win us this seasons league and qualifying for CL would have paid for it itself.
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I got ridiculed in January for saying not signing Shankland was going to cost us millions. Look where we are now. Too many snobs thinking he wasn't good enough when he's more than good enough and that we would be okay without a centre forward.
 
We have brought in a new head of recruitment and team for this. We were moving to a more data driven transfer policy so we will need to see where it takes us.

Regardless, we need to balance the books so we will need to try and bring money in for players like Lammers, Dessers, Hagi and maybe even Tav and Goldson.

Butland, Yilmaz and Cantwell are probably the 3 that hold most value as well
 
ecossebear said:
It’s going to take years to fully recover from Beale. Jack, Roofe, Borna, McLaughlin all certainly away for free. Lundstram, Balogun, Cortes, Sima and Silva likely also. Goldson absolutely now has to go. And I can see Davies, Lammers, Raskin, Dessers, Wright, Hagi all moved on for peanuts! Who does that leave us with? Barely a team we can put out far less decent depth. If the above go, we have

Butland, Tav (who should go), Souttar, Sterling, Yilmaz, Dowell, Diamonde, Cantwell, Matondo, McAusland and Danilo. That’s it - 11 senior players and a lot of them not good enough!

Do the fans have the patience to wait multiple transfer windows? Does the manager have the staying power for it? Add to all this, under Beale we allowed Kent, Morelos, Arfield, Hellander all go for free.
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I honestly wouldn’t bet against Clement walking at the end of next season if he isn’t backed properly.

What good does it do for his reputation to watch that mob win 4/5/6 in a row potentially while trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear?

Where we go from there with this board is anyone’s guess.
 
paphosranger said:
I got ridiculed in January for saying not signing Shankland was going to cost us millions. Look where we are now. Too many snobs thinking he wasn't good enough when he's more than good enough and that we would be okay without a centre forward.
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Would he have kept the ball out of our own net?

We've scored 5 goals in the last 2 games and have 1 point to show for it.

Scoring goals isn't our issue right now. Our defence has completely collapsed.
 
We'll get our money back on Lammers and Dessers, will make ££ on Butland and hopefully get a few mil for goldson and Tav who's time is well and truely up. We will free up wages with lundstram, balogun, Davies, Roofe, Barisic all leaving.

With that cash we need Cortes, Diomande, Sima, a GK, 2 CFs and 2 CBs
 
paphosranger said:
I got ridiculed in January for saying not signing Shankland was going to cost us millions. Look where we are now. Too many snobs thinking he wasn't good enough when he's more than good enough and that we would be okay without a centre forward.
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We didn't have any money.

Hearts weren't going to just give him to us for nothing.
 
julian candy said:
Would he have kept the ball out of our own net?

We've scored 5 goals in the last 2 games and have 1 point to show for it.

Scoring goals isn't our issue right now. Our defence has completely collapsed.
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We buried the two chances Dessers missed today we win the game.
 
paphosranger said:
Summer money could have been spent in January imo. Was well worth the Champions League game when you consider some of the dross we have spent millions on recently.
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We couldn't

Clement has literally said the budget in January was zero, so we had to be creative with deals - hence why it was 3 loans.

Hearts weren't loaning us Shankland.
 
JC85 said:
Going by the last 2 summers we generally spend around £15m. We've already commited £4m to Diomande. If we realistically want to address the biggest issue in our team, then it means we spend the rest of it on two serious quality centre backs. Meaning no Sima. No Cortes. No marquee no.9.
Click to expand...
As much as I’m done with Goldson, most of this league is not good enough to expose him to the full potential, up until recently, we had conceded less than them, we need a 20 a season striker.

Edit: 20 against the big teams, not doubles against Livingston and st Johnstone etc.
 
Bradbo88 said:
2 CBS at 4m each.

Shankland 2m

1m on a diamond in the rough midfielder.

4m on diomande.

Then we splash the cash when lammers goes for 10m.
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Just can't see us getting shankland at 2 mill. Hearts will know we are desperate. The bloody Tim's will bid, just to put the price up as well
 
Govanfrnt said:
We'll get our money back on Lammers and Dessers, will make ££ on Butland and hopefully get a few mil for goldson and Tav who's time is well and truely up. We will free up wages with lundstram, balogun, Davies, Roofe, Barisic all leaving.

With that cash we need Cortes, Diomande, Sima, a GK, 2 CFs and 2 CBs
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And a RB
 
Bigbluebear said:
We couldn't

Clement has literally said the budget in January was zero, so we had to be creative with deals - hence why it was 3 loans.

Hearts weren't loaning us Shankland.
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With a big fee to be paid to them in the summer, plus the added fact he couldn't play against them - both guaranteed then I don't see why not really.
 
sammy1872 said:
We again face the question this summer of how do we fund a rebuild if we dont win this league and get the ucl money. We need the money but to get it we need to win the league by beating a team who get the money by winning the last league and can fund their own signings. Maybe its better that after thid year the champions dont automatically qualify because its never us. Our recruitment basically needs to be 100% spot on and hope we get a few bargains which isnt sustainable
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What we spend will largely depend on what we manage to raise from offloaded players.

People thinking we will spend around £15m like the last two summers will do well to remember that the money was raised by selling guys like Kamara, Sakala and Colak last summer and Bassey and Aribo the year before. Our net spend is tiny and we don't have a spare £15m to spend.

Players like Roofe, Jack, Balogun and possibly Lundstram leaving will free up wages but Lundstram and Balogun at least would need replacing. Roofe and Jack contribute hee haw anyway. The players we have on loan need replacing, just for numbers.

Fringe players, like Hagi, Dowell, Lammers, Davies, Wright, guys that clubs know we don't want, we'll pretty much have to take what we get.

Guys like Lawrence, Souttar, Sterling, possibly Raskin, decent squad options, we could possibly ship out for decent, if not astronomical money but then they'd need replacing and there's no guarantee we improve on quality.

What real assets do we have? Yilmaz maybe? Cantwell and Butland could probably command decent fees but it's probably this summer or never.

Tav and Goldson are on good money and going nowhere.

I'd imagine, having already committed money on Diomande, we're again looking at the bosman and loan market. I'm fine with that to be honest. Having seen some of the players we've bought in recent years, it doesn't seem to matter if you're a £1m player or a £4m player, the difference is negligible. It's a crap shoot either way. I like the idea of more loans with an option to buy.

Just to replace outgoings?

We'll have to bring in a left back. We'll have to bring in a centre back. We need a striker we can rely on. We'll need at least two, up to four wide players. That's before we get to replacing all the ones that people are demanding we ship out.

Big summer.
 
People are obsessed with big fees and how much needs to be spent.

Butland
Sterling
Tavernier
Hatate
O Riley

Probably the best 5 players in the league this season give or take, is that even 3 million spent in fees?

How we spend wages is as great an issue as fees.
 
We need to back this manager.

But he has to put an end to this once and for all. If he keeps Lundstram and Tavernier and Goldson are starters next season he won't last.
 
mossybear said:
Signing a striker in January to win us this seasons league and qualifying for CL would have paid for it itself.
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Absolutely 100%
No-one can tell me Shankland would have missed the chances aseaseea has missed.
Shanllamd is a brilliant finisher.
Desserts is absolutely fucking rotten
 
Gascoigne87 said:
Its our attack thats killing us. We have conceded the least amount of goals in the league. We miss far too many chances.
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Agree 100%
Because Dessers despite costing is a lot more wuhan Shankland, is absolutely nowhere near as good.
Hea fucking awful, he's painfully slow, and he finishing is an absolute abomination
 
paphosranger said:
I got ridiculed in January for saying not signing Shankland was going to cost us millions. Look where we are now. Too many snobs thinking he wasn't good enough when he's more than good enough and that we would be okay without a centre forward.
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We've just conceded 6 goals in two games. 3 to Ross County how is a CF the answer.

In any case, we clearly didn't have any money to spend in January and Shankland at 3/4m quid is simply not good value.
 
Novichok said:
We've just conceded 6 goals in two games. 3 to Ross County how is a CF the answer.

In any case, we clearly didn't have any money to spend in January and Shankland at 3/4m quid is simply not good value.
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Signing a forward who would score the goals that win the league and get you into the champions league is well worth £4m. We missed sitters today, Shankland in the team we win.
 
ecossebear said:
It’s going to take years to fully recover from Beale. Jack, Roofe, Borna, McLaughlin all certainly away for free. Lundstram, Balogun, Cortes, Sima and Silva likely also. Goldson absolutely now has to go. And I can see Davies, Lammers, Raskin, Dessers, Wright, Hagi all moved on for peanuts! Who does that leave us with? Barely a team we can put out far less decent depth. If the above go, we have

Butland, Tav (who should go), Souttar, Sterling, Yilmaz, Dowell, Diamonde, Cantwell, Matondo, McAusland and Danilo. That’s it - 11 senior players and a lot of them not good enough!

Do the fans have the patience to wait multiple transfer windows? Does the manager have the staying power for it? Add to all this, under Beale we allowed Kent, Morelos, Arfield, Hellander all go for free.
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Great post but somethings missing. Players who came through Milngavie. And there is our problem right there. McAusland. That's it. Patterson was a long time ago now. There has to be a question if it is worth it? Punt the place for Wimpey to build mansions and put the money into breaking the stranglehold the animals have.
 
Sima with a loan option to buy would sort one position
Not seen enough of cortes
Sell Davies Goldson and replace both sign a project and 2 first team ready centre half's
Midfield is key for me. We're spending 4m on diomonde and are we any better

Forward areas need addressed as well
When typing that I see the task before us
 
Pratamnak Prod said:
Great post but somethings missing. Players who came through Milngavie. And there is our problem right there. McAusland. That's it. Patterson was a long time ago now. There has to be a question if it is worth it? Punt the place for Wimpey to build mansions and put the money into breaking the stranglehold the animals have.
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Are you being sarcastic sell our fuckin training ground to whimpey

Thank god fans don't have a say in running the club
 
albop said:
Are you being sarcastic sell our fuckin training ground to whimpey

Thank god fans don't have a say in running the club
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Sell it? Aye! Show me it's worth? We need to be winning this league, not pampering boys who are not going to contribute in the near to immediate future.
 
sammy1872 said:
We again face the question this summer of how do we fund a rebuild if we dont win this league and get the ucl money. We need the money but to get it we need to win the league by beating a team who get the money by winning the last league and can fund their own signings. Maybe its better that after thid year the champions dont automatically qualify because its never us. Our recruitment basically needs to be 100% spot on and hope we get a few bargains which isnt sustainable
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Our recruitment won’t improve until we stop chopping and changing managers. Including Gerrard, we’ve have 4 managers since 55 without there being any consistency in style of play. So change the manager, change the squad. The next manager inherits players not suited to his style and it starts all over again. The net effect is we spend too much money on too many players. And as each year goes by we have less to spend on quality players. The optimum is to swap out 2 or 3 players each season increasing the quality as you go. Having to buy 6, 7, 8 or so doesn’t get you the quality needed.
 
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