tomvallance1983
Well-Known Member
Ten minutes in, good watch so far.
Subtitles though
Subtitles though
At the 1958 World Cup so not far off lol10 mins in? So around his primary 7 goals?
Thanks mate, will give this a watch over the weekend.
An awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.
But he was an absolute God amongst football followers back in his time. There were many wonderful players all over the world but nobody questioned who was the best.
That 1970 Brazil team had a forward line that still hasn't been bettered. Yet every player in that team knew who their top man was.
And those who think he never scored against anyone decent, have a look at the list of countries he scored against, often in the biggest of games.
Show them Escape to Victory. They'll see how good he was!An awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.
Spelling: Jairzinho & TostaoThat Brazil forward line in 1970 sticks in my mind the same way Ritchie, Shearer, Caldow does.
Jairizeno ,Gerson ,Toastoa ,Pele ,Rivelino.
Football like we had never seen before in Scotland.
Fabulous !
Amateur football must have came on a bit since I played.Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.
It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.
Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
You don't think the standard looks great?Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.
It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.
Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
You have the same opinion on Guys like Jim Baxter, George Best then?Nothing wrong with saying he’s the best of his generation, but to say he’s the best of all time IMO is wrong. The standard of the game when he played is miles off what we see today.
You have the same opinion on Guys like Jim Baxter, George Best thenNothing wrong with saying he’s the best of his generation, but to say he’s the best of all time IMO is wrong. The standard of the game when he played is miles off what we see today.
Some of the posts on here about Pele and the standard of football back then are embarrassing to say the leastAn awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.
But he was an absolute God amongst football followers back in his time. There were many wonderful players all over the world but nobody questioned who was the best.
That 1970 Brazil team had a forward line that still hasn't been bettered. Yet every player in that team knew who their top man was.
And those who think he never scored against anyone decent, have a look at the list of countries he scored against, often in the biggest of games.
Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.
It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.
Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
Excellent post mateDo you have a list of the goals he counts in friendlies and against what teams? I see this being said all the time with not a lot of evidence to back it up.
Even if you don't include goals in friendlies, his official goal tally was only passed by Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of months ago.
When Pele played for Santos, they used to tour Europe every season playing "friendlies" against the best teams in Europe. These were actually big events and not like the modern friendly. Lots of fans turned out to see these games as they wanted to see Santos and Pele, it was also a chance for Europe's best to test themselves against them. These games were played with more of a competitive edge than a modern friendly game. I believe Pele had an average of 1.4 goals per game against teams in Europe over a 10 year period, are these goals included in the friendly numbers you're talking about?
I agree the standard doesn't look as good or as quick as the modern game but the game has developed that much it has almost become a different sport. The pitches are totally different, the boots and balls have changed. How physical you are allowed to be on the pitch and the protection you receive from refs is totally different. That's why when talking about the GOAT I find it a difficult argument.
People in general though haven't just become more naturally talented with time. It's just an evolution of footballers due to the advances in sports science, health and wellbeing. Just imagine how good Pele would be today if he was born in this era. Imagine Maradona being as fit as the footballers today and playing on bowling greens every week with players not allowed to tackle him?
Pele was an absolute beast and without doubt one of the greatest ever to play the game.
Have you ever watched amateur football?Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.
It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.
Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
Do you have a list of the goals he counts in friendlies and against what teams? I see this being said all the time with not a lot of evidence to back it up.
Even if you don't include goals in friendlies, his official goal tally was only passed by Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of months ago.
As I said above, pele is a prickMy comments were a bit tongue in cheek to be fair. I think Sir Alex said it best when he said that great players would be great players in any era. Obviously as the sport moves on the guys from yesteryear would be left behind even just by the fitness of most professionals these days. But given the same training / diet etc they'd obviously still be top players.
That's what I mean about his official goal tally though. Aye on paper it's incredible and right up there. But when you look a bit deeper into it, a lot of it doesn't hold much weight...
That isn't the real Botafogo or Juventus. They were Brazilian state teams, sometimes made up of part time footballers. In fact I think one of the teams was made up of a group of lifeguards.
It'd be the equivalent of Rangers competing in a Glasgow league and horsing Pollok or Benburb.
Top 5 Things Pele Does Not Want You to Know
Pelé consistently deceives the footballing community with half-truths regarding his achievements. This is the same guy that said Nicky Butt was the 2002 FIFA World Cup's best player...bleacherreport.com
Brilliant post mate, 100% correct.Do you have a list of the goals he counts in friendlies and against what teams? I see this being said all the time with not a lot of evidence to back it up.
Even if you don't include goals in friendlies, his official goal tally was only passed by Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of months ago.
When Pele played for Santos, they used to tour Europe every season playing "friendlies" against the best teams in Europe. These were actually big events and not like the modern friendly. Lots of fans turned out to see these games as they wanted to see Santos and Pele, it was also a chance for Europe's best to test themselves against them. These games were played with more of a competitive edge than a modern friendly game. I believe Pele had an average of 1.4 goals per game against teams in Europe over a 10 year period, are these goals included in the friendly numbers you're talking about?
I agree the standard doesn't look as good or as quick as the modern game but the game has developed that much it has almost become a different sport. The pitches are totally different, the boots and balls have changed. How physical you are allowed to be on the pitch and the protection you receive from refs is totally different. That's why when talking about the GOAT I find it a difficult argument.
People in general though haven't just become more naturally talented with time. It's just an evolution of footballers due to the advances in sports science, health and wellbeing. Just imagine how good Pele would be today if he was born in this era. Imagine Maradona being as fit as the footballers today and playing on bowling greens every week with players not allowed to tackle him?
Pele was an absolute beast and without doubt one of the greatest ever to play the game.
Indeed, to be fair Hatch the goalkeeper had a great gameShow them Escape to Victory. They'll see how good he was!
My comments were a bit tongue in cheek to be fair. I think Sir Alex said it best when he said that great players would be great players in any era. Obviously as the sport moves on the guys from yesteryear would be left behind even just by the fitness of most professionals these days. But given the same training / diet etc they'd obviously still be top players.
That's what I mean about his official goal tally though. Aye on paper it's incredible and right up there. But when you look a bit deeper into it, a lot of it doesn't hold much weight...
That isn't the real Botafogo or Juventus. They were Brazilian state teams, sometimes made up of part time footballers. In fact I think one of the teams was made up of a group of lifeguards.
It'd be the equivalent of Rangers competing in a Glasgow league and horsing Pollok or Benburb.
Top 5 Things Pele Does Not Want You to Know
Pelé consistently deceives the footballing community with half-truths regarding his achievements. This is the same guy that said Nicky Butt was the 2002 FIFA World Cup's best player...bleacherreport.com
Three World Cups makes him the best of any era. Most players would be very lucky to win one.That article is just a bit of a hatchet job to be honest with an author who seems to have an agenda.
Even the official goal record is outrageous but as I said, a lot of these goals in friendlies and tour games he is playing down were against the best teams in Europe with huge crowds there.
Remember back in those days as well you didnt have many foreign players coming to Europe to play. The Brazilian league back then would have been a very good standard. All of the best Brazilian and South American players played their football in that region.
All of the other great players in that era said Pele was the best as well. That means something.
Think its only(!) 2 mate as he was injured and didnt play many, if any, games in the 62 WC.Three World Cups makes him the best of any era. Most players would be very lucky to win one.
Bit harsh mate. Struggling to get a boner shouldn't detract from what a great player he was.Undoubtedly a great player, if not the greatest. In my book he's thrown away almost all goodwill towards him with his post football career antics.
I don’t think that’s the main issue. The guy is a grade A knobBit harsh mate. Struggling to get a boner shouldn't detract from what a great player he was.
Watching that world cup was a huge moment in time for me.That Brazil forward line in 1970 sticks in my mind the same way Ritchie, Shearer, Caldow does.
Jairizeno ,Gerson ,Toastoa ,Pele ,Rivelino.
Football like we had never seen before in Scotland.
Fabulous !
I don’t think that’s the main issue. The guy is a grade A knob
No. Have you read some of the utter shite he’s came out with?Has he pumped your maw or something?
Pele today would play in Europe.Of his era, Pele was the best. Since then, have there been stronger, faster, more skillful players? Yes. But they've benefited from better training, pitches, equipment etc. Would a 60/70s Pele cope against 2020s speed and physicality? Probably not but, vice versa, how would modern players cope with old school training, pitches, hacking etc?
To me, it's similar to old athletes, drivers etc. Jessie Owens and Fangio were amazing for their time. But their records got broken. Doesn't mean they weren't amazing talents. Same with Pele. He has to be judged on his time.
Different balls, horrible pitches, psychopathic defenders. Folk should never underestimate how good he was considering all the circumstances.An awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.
But he was an absolute God amongst football followers back in his time. There were many wonderful players all over the world but nobody questioned who was the best.
That 1970 Brazil team had a forward line that still hasn't been bettered. Yet every player in that team knew who their top man was.
And those who think he never scored against anyone decent, have a look at the list of countries he scored against, often in the biggest of games.
Why do we think he struggles or ever struggled to get an erection?Bit harsh mate. Struggling to get a boner shouldn't detract from what a great player he was.
Im talking of corruption. I suspect Pele is less corrupt than many in recent Brazilian and world football but nevertheless he is dodgy.Bit harsh mate. Struggling to get a boner shouldn't detract from what a great player he was.
I don’t think that’s the main issue. The guy is a grade A knob
Why do we think he struggles or ever struggled to get an erection?
Since when did using a product become the reason for advertising a product?
Or have I missed something?
Im talking of corruption. I suspect Pele is less corrupt than many in recent Brazilian and world football but nevertheless he is dodgy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/worldcupfootball2002.football
Three World Cups makes him the best of any era. Most players would be very lucky to win one.
They talk about it in the documentary how he met with Medici and could have spoken out.Im talking of corruption. I suspect Pele is less corrupt than many in recent Brazilian and world football but nevertheless he is dodgy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/worldcupfootball2002.football