Netflix Pelé Documentary

An awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.

But he was an absolute God amongst football followers back in his time. There were many wonderful players all over the world but nobody questioned who was the best.

That 1970 Brazil team had a forward line that still hasn't been bettered. Yet every player in that team knew who their top man was.

And those who think he never scored against anyone decent, have a look at the list of countries he scored against, often in the biggest of games.
 
dh1963 said:
An awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.

But he was an absolute God amongst football followers back in his time. There were many wonderful players all over the world but nobody questioned who was the best.

That 1970 Brazil team had a forward line that still hasn't been bettered. Yet every player in that team knew who their top man was.

And those who think he never scored against anyone decent, have a look at the list of countries he scored against, often in the biggest of games.
Click to expand...

Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.

It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.


Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
 
Bigeye said:
That Brazil forward line in 1970 sticks in my mind the same way Ritchie, Shearer, Caldow does.
Jairizeno ,Gerson ,Toastoa ,Pele ,Rivelino.

Football like we had never seen before in Scotland.

Fabulous !
Click to expand...
Spelling: Jairzinho & Tostao

But yes, I agree. I'll never see their like again.
 
dt17 said:
Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.

It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.


Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
Click to expand...
Amateur football must have came on a bit since I played.
 
Nothing wrong with saying he’s the best of his generation, but to say he’s the best of all time IMO is wrong. The standard of the game when he played is miles off what we see today.
 
Undoubtedly a great player, if not the greatest. In my book he's thrown away almost all goodwill towards him with his post football career antics.
 
dt17 said:
Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.

It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.


Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
Click to expand...
You don't think the standard looks great?

What's your thoughts on other players around that era, Jim Baxter and the likes?
 
QuarterPounder said:
Nothing wrong with saying he’s the best of his generation, but to say he’s the best of all time IMO is wrong. The standard of the game when he played is miles off what we see today.
Click to expand...
You have the same opinion on Guys like Jim Baxter, George Best then
dh1963 said:
An awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.

But he was an absolute God amongst football followers back in his time. There were many wonderful players all over the world but nobody questioned who was the best.

That 1970 Brazil team had a forward line that still hasn't been bettered. Yet every player in that team knew who their top man was.

And those who think he never scored against anyone decent, have a look at the list of countries he scored against, often in the biggest of games.
Click to expand...
Some of the posts on here about Pele and the standard of football back then are embarrassing to say the least
 
dt17 said:
Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.

It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.


Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
Click to expand...

Do you have a list of the goals he counts in friendlies and against what teams? I see this being said all the time with not a lot of evidence to back it up.

Even if you don't include goals in friendlies, his official goal tally was only passed by Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of months ago.

When Pele played for Santos, they used to tour Europe every season playing "friendlies" against the best teams in Europe. These were actually big events and not like the modern friendly. Lots of fans turned out to see these games as they wanted to see Santos and Pele, it was also a chance for Europe's best to test themselves against them. These games were played with more of a competitive edge than a modern friendly game. I believe Pele had an average of 1.4 goals per game against teams in Europe over a 10 year period, are these goals included in the friendly numbers you're talking about?

I agree the standard doesn't look as good or as quick as the modern game but the game has developed that much it has almost become a different sport. The pitches are totally different, the boots and balls have changed. How physical you are allowed to be on the pitch and the protection you receive from refs is totally different. That's why when talking about the GOAT I find it a difficult argument.

People in general though haven't just become more naturally talented with time. It's just an evolution of footballers due to the advances in sports science, health and wellbeing. Just imagine how good Pele would be today if he was born in this era. Imagine Maradona being as fit as the footballers today and playing on bowling greens every week with players not allowed to tackle him?

Pele was an absolute beast and without doubt one of the greatest ever to play the game.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Do you have a list of the goals he counts in friendlies and against what teams? I see this being said all the time with not a lot of evidence to back it up.

Even if you don't include goals in friendlies, his official goal tally was only passed by Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of months ago.

When Pele played for Santos, they used to tour Europe every season playing "friendlies" against the best teams in Europe. These were actually big events and not like the modern friendly. Lots of fans turned out to see these games as they wanted to see Santos and Pele, it was also a chance for Europe's best to test themselves against them. These games were played with more of a competitive edge than a modern friendly game. I believe Pele had an average of 1.4 goals per game against teams in Europe over a 10 year period, are these goals included in the friendly numbers you're talking about?

I agree the standard doesn't look as good or as quick as the modern game but the game has developed that much it has almost become a different sport. The pitches are totally different, the boots and balls have changed. How physical you are allowed to be on the pitch and the protection you receive from refs is totally different. That's why when talking about the GOAT I find it a difficult argument.

People in general though haven't just become more naturally talented with time. It's just an evolution of footballers due to the advances in sports science, health and wellbeing. Just imagine how good Pele would be today if he was born in this era. Imagine Maradona being as fit as the footballers today and playing on bowling greens every week with players not allowed to tackle him?

Pele was an absolute beast and without doubt one of the greatest ever to play the game.
Click to expand...
Excellent post mate
 
dt17 said:
Tbh mate I don't think anyone doubts he was a great of his time.

It's just the utter nonsense he comes out with that has turned him into a bit of a laughing stock. His goal tally for starters...he counts goals scored in friendlies and against all sorts of part time teams etc.


Standard doesn't exactly look great either. It's like today's amateur football.
Click to expand...
Have you ever watched amateur football?
 
This issue with Pele in the modern game is that his brand in an effort to cement him as the best of all time has ended up dilluting his legacy.

He was a great player, but true greats don't need to constantly justify themselves. But with Pele it seems less a celebration of his greatness and more a forcing of opinion with labouring of goal record and its open to question. For a while he was marketed as some kind of football oracle, with his top players lists coming out. Even those were unremarkable.

In short, I'm personally bored hearing about Pele. A football great, but done to death.
 
Will get round to watching this. Watched The Last Dance and thought is was outstanding. The insight into what it takes to be GOAT and the ruthlessness was incredible and obviously a trait that transcends sports. Don't know if the Pele documentary offers that perspective but Senna and the series on F1 showed similar qualities over and above raw talent. you hear SG going on about ruthless and relentless.
 
My comments were a bit tongue in cheek to be fair. I think Sir Alex said it best when he said that great players would be great players in any era. Obviously as the sport moves on the guys from yesteryear would be left behind even just by the fitness of most professionals these days. But given the same training / diet etc they'd obviously still be top players.

Drumchapel-Bear said:
Do you have a list of the goals he counts in friendlies and against what teams? I see this being said all the time with not a lot of evidence to back it up.

Even if you don't include goals in friendlies, his official goal tally was only passed by Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of months ago.
Click to expand...

That's what I mean about his official goal tally though. Aye on paper it's incredible and right up there. But when you look a bit deeper into it, a lot of it doesn't hold much weight...

YTBu5g2.png


That isn't the real Botafogo or Juventus. They were Brazilian state teams, sometimes made up of part time footballers. In fact I think one of the teams was made up of a group of lifeguards.

It'd be the equivalent of Rangers competing in a Glasgow league and horsing Pollok or Benburb.

bleacherreport.com

Top 5 Things Pele Does Not Want You to Know

Pelé consistently deceives the footballing community with half-truths regarding his achievements. This is the same guy that said Nicky Butt was the 2002 FIFA World Cup's best player...
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
 
dt17 said:
My comments were a bit tongue in cheek to be fair. I think Sir Alex said it best when he said that great players would be great players in any era. Obviously as the sport moves on the guys from yesteryear would be left behind even just by the fitness of most professionals these days. But given the same training / diet etc they'd obviously still be top players.



That's what I mean about his official goal tally though. Aye on paper it's incredible and right up there. But when you look a bit deeper into it, a lot of it doesn't hold much weight...

YTBu5g2.png


That isn't the real Botafogo or Juventus. They were Brazilian state teams, sometimes made up of part time footballers. In fact I think one of the teams was made up of a group of lifeguards.

It'd be the equivalent of Rangers competing in a Glasgow league and horsing Pollok or Benburb.

bleacherreport.com

Top 5 Things Pele Does Not Want You to Know

Pelé consistently deceives the footballing community with half-truths regarding his achievements. This is the same guy that said Nicky Butt was the 2002 FIFA World Cup's best player...
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
Click to expand...
As I said above, pele is a prick
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Do you have a list of the goals he counts in friendlies and against what teams? I see this being said all the time with not a lot of evidence to back it up.

Even if you don't include goals in friendlies, his official goal tally was only passed by Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of months ago.

When Pele played for Santos, they used to tour Europe every season playing "friendlies" against the best teams in Europe. These were actually big events and not like the modern friendly. Lots of fans turned out to see these games as they wanted to see Santos and Pele, it was also a chance for Europe's best to test themselves against them. These games were played with more of a competitive edge than a modern friendly game. I believe Pele had an average of 1.4 goals per game against teams in Europe over a 10 year period, are these goals included in the friendly numbers you're talking about?

I agree the standard doesn't look as good or as quick as the modern game but the game has developed that much it has almost become a different sport. The pitches are totally different, the boots and balls have changed. How physical you are allowed to be on the pitch and the protection you receive from refs is totally different. That's why when talking about the GOAT I find it a difficult argument.

People in general though haven't just become more naturally talented with time. It's just an evolution of footballers due to the advances in sports science, health and wellbeing. Just imagine how good Pele would be today if he was born in this era. Imagine Maradona being as fit as the footballers today and playing on bowling greens every week with players not allowed to tackle him?

Pele was an absolute beast and without doubt one of the greatest ever to play the game.
Click to expand...
Brilliant post mate, 100% correct.
Pele got kicked to %^*& back then with absolutely no protection, tackles from the back . Refs didn’t need yellow and red cards back then as were very rarely used. Some Pitches were horrendous like ploughed fields, footballs had visible stitching sticking out them and weighed like medicine balls compared to footballs nowadays.
I honestly think the best players of today like Ronaldo ,Messi would have struggled in that era, and would be nowhere the players they are today.
 
dt17 said:
My comments were a bit tongue in cheek to be fair. I think Sir Alex said it best when he said that great players would be great players in any era. Obviously as the sport moves on the guys from yesteryear would be left behind even just by the fitness of most professionals these days. But given the same training / diet etc they'd obviously still be top players.



That's what I mean about his official goal tally though. Aye on paper it's incredible and right up there. But when you look a bit deeper into it, a lot of it doesn't hold much weight...

YTBu5g2.png


That isn't the real Botafogo or Juventus. They were Brazilian state teams, sometimes made up of part time footballers. In fact I think one of the teams was made up of a group of lifeguards.

It'd be the equivalent of Rangers competing in a Glasgow league and horsing Pollok or Benburb.

bleacherreport.com

Top 5 Things Pele Does Not Want You to Know

Pelé consistently deceives the footballing community with half-truths regarding his achievements. This is the same guy that said Nicky Butt was the 2002 FIFA World Cup's best player...
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
Click to expand...

That article is just a bit of a hatchet job to be honest with an author who seems to have an agenda.

Even the official goal record is outrageous but as I said, a lot of these goals in friendlies and tour games he is playing down were against the best teams in Europe with huge crowds there.

Remember back in those days as well you didnt have many foreign players coming to Europe to play. The Brazilian league back then would have been a very good standard. All of the best Brazilian and South American players played their football in that region.

All of the other great players in that era said Pele was the best as well. That means something.
 
Of his era, Pele was the best. Since then, have there been stronger, faster, more skillful players? Yes. But they've benefited from better training, pitches, equipment etc. Would a 60/70s Pele cope against 2020s speed and physicality? Probably not but, vice versa, how would modern players cope with old school training, pitches, hacking etc?

To me, it's similar to old athletes, drivers etc. Jessie Owens and Fangio were amazing for their time. But their records got broken. Doesn't mean they weren't amazing talents. Same with Pele. He has to be judged on his time.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
That article is just a bit of a hatchet job to be honest with an author who seems to have an agenda.

Even the official goal record is outrageous but as I said, a lot of these goals in friendlies and tour games he is playing down were against the best teams in Europe with huge crowds there.

Remember back in those days as well you didnt have many foreign players coming to Europe to play. The Brazilian league back then would have been a very good standard. All of the best Brazilian and South American players played their football in that region.

All of the other great players in that era said Pele was the best as well. That means something.
Click to expand...
Three World Cups makes him the best of any era. Most players would be very lucky to win one.
 
Whether he was the goat or not it’s still a good documentary.

interesting seeing the footage from the different world cups and how he became an icon
 
Teuchterblue said:
Undoubtedly a great player, if not the greatest. In my book he's thrown away almost all goodwill towards him with his post football career antics.
Click to expand...
Bit harsh mate. Struggling to get a boner shouldn't detract from what a great player he was.
 
Bigeye said:
That Brazil forward line in 1970 sticks in my mind the same way Ritchie, Shearer, Caldow does.
Jairizeno ,Gerson ,Toastoa ,Pele ,Rivelino.

Football like we had never seen before in Scotland.

Fabulous !
Click to expand...
Watching that world cup was a huge moment in time for me.
I was mesmerised by it.
Pele carried that world cup on his back like a lead man in a Hollywood movie and he was star quality all the way through from beginning to end.
Given its period and all things being relative it was for me the best world cup ever.
 
HCMC_Loyal said:
Of his era, Pele was the best. Since then, have there been stronger, faster, more skillful players? Yes. But they've benefited from better training, pitches, equipment etc. Would a 60/70s Pele cope against 2020s speed and physicality? Probably not but, vice versa, how would modern players cope with old school training, pitches, hacking etc?

To me, it's similar to old athletes, drivers etc. Jessie Owens and Fangio were amazing for their time. But their records got broken. Doesn't mean they weren't amazing talents. Same with Pele. He has to be judged on his time.
Click to expand...
Pele today would play in Europe.
He would be surrounded by the top talents in the world and he would be set inside them like a diamond in a cluster of other precious stones.
He would play with superior kit on better surfaces and be given the best training facilities, medical support and nutritional benefits available.

He would be a superstar and he would score the goals to win Champions Leagues, National Titles and World Cups.
Would he be better than Ronaldo or Messi, not necessarily, but we would talk about him in exactly the same bracket because he would be up there with them.
Pele would be an incredible talent in any generation.
 
dh1963 said:
An awful lot of younger modern football fans laugh off Pele as if he was some overrated nobody.

But he was an absolute God amongst football followers back in his time. There were many wonderful players all over the world but nobody questioned who was the best.

That 1970 Brazil team had a forward line that still hasn't been bettered. Yet every player in that team knew who their top man was.

And those who think he never scored against anyone decent, have a look at the list of countries he scored against, often in the biggest of games.
Click to expand...
Different balls, horrible pitches, psychopathic defenders. Folk should never underestimate how good he was considering all the circumstances.
 
Rudiger said:
Bit harsh mate. Struggling to get a boner shouldn't detract from what a great player he was.
Click to expand...
Why do we think he struggles or ever struggled to get an erection?
Since when did using a product become the reason for advertising a product?
Or have I missed something?
 
gers1978 said:
I don’t think that’s the main issue. The guy is a grade A knob
Click to expand...
bilkobear said:
Why do we think he struggles or ever struggled to get an erection?
Since when did using a product become the reason for advertising a product?
Or have I missed something?
Click to expand...
Teuchterblue said:
Im talking of corruption. I suspect Pele is less corrupt than many in recent Brazilian and world football but nevertheless he is dodgy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/worldcupfootball2002.football
Click to expand...
 
NeillyGibson said:
Three World Cups makes him the best of any era. Most players would be very lucky to win one.
Click to expand...


See that's just nonsense.

World Cups only involved 16 teams back then.

So that's what, 6 games? Three group stage, quarters, semis, final.

Are you telling me that due to 18 games of an entire career - that makes you the best player of all time?

In fact, not even that...

1958 - Pele played 4 games
1962 - Pele played 2 games
1970 - Pele played 6 games

So 12 games makes you the best. Ok.
 
Teuchterblue said:
Im talking of corruption. I suspect Pele is less corrupt than many in recent Brazilian and world football but nevertheless he is dodgy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/worldcupfootball2002.football
Click to expand...
They talk about it in the documentary how he met with Medici and could have spoken out.

but the fact is you spoke out against him, you disappeared. Not like our pussy society where you can claim Trump is a dictator but say anything you want about him with no fear of reprisal
 
Thought documentary was ok but no more than that.

Similar to the one which was on the bbc iplayer I'm sure, maybe a storyville one focusing on Brazil and Argentina football/military links.
 
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