Other than some personnel, what has changed from last season?

We held on to to many of the nucleus of a very good Team for to long. Should have been constantly changing and freshening up ....and crucially cashing in and reinvesting. We failed to do it and now we are needing a complete overhaul but do not have the finance. I am also of the opinion that Clement does not have the tactical nuance we require. I still cannot fathom out his tactical style.
I feel the coming season is going to be very difficult for us.
 
What’s changed from last season?

It’s hard to tell, given we’re only a couple games into pre season and haven’t really kicked our recruitment into gear.

Flabbergasted, and pretty bored if I’m honest, at the amount of kecks being pissed at this very early stage.

In a sense you are correct, and I totally agree, pre season games mean sod all.

But are supporters not allowed to express an opinion on what they've witnessed? Because that was not a newly assembled team out there yesterday, it was mostly the same old, turgid, one-paced guff. Only when Matondo and Yilmaz came on did we see a wee bit pressure or movement.

Who is seeing potential in that display yesterday? Do you honestly believe that lot become 'best in class' in a fortnight? Because I have to tell you it ain't happening bud.
 
Questions HAVE to be asked of Clement.

The fact that they aren't is quite remarkable considering what he is producing.

He has changed nothing and we are brutal to watch.


This is the reason The Board will keep getting away with not being fit for purpose, the buck always seem to stop with the Manager even tho he's not really been given a fair crack at the whip, we need a full re-build and we've not even came close to one
 
Clement needs to get the ones that are clueless and do stupid shit like go for wee naps during the game and try and pound it out of them. The only positive so far for me is knowing I won't ever need to watch Lundstram ever again.
 
I actually think we are getting worse. We still have a few weeks to make signings but it's not looking good at the moment is it?
 
With the poor selection of players available, who in your opinion would set the team up better? Clement or McInnes?

Not looking at stirring the pot, nor am I wanting McInnes in but my guess is there would be very little between them.

Clement inherited a shit show and dragged us from nowhere last season into cup winners and qualifying through our europa group.

He got us to the top of the table and then, as usual, injuries start affecting our team and it goes to hell.

I have listened to what borna said, and I think we all know this, the professionalism and structure built during the stevie g years has gone. Gio also suffered because of this and for some reason the board then flung money at beale, only for him to waste it.

I think mcinnes is a decent manager and may do a good job at Rangers but and I would prefer to give clement the chance. To get to where we need to be, we need to invest in the playing squad. That doesn't appear to be happening.
 
The squad is rotten, but there’s red flags galore with the manager also.

The way he’s setting us up is awful to watch. There’s no attacking flair or intent.

Poor start to the season and we know how this ends.
Who’s the attacking flare he can pick?

Btw I’m not saying he’s not made some bad decisions but fundamentally he doesn’t have the tools to do what people are saying.
 
We held on to to many of the nucleus of a very good Team for to long. Should have been constantly changing and freshening up ....and crucially cashing in and reinvesting. We failed to do it and now we are needing a complete overhaul but do not have the finance. I am also of the opinion that Clement does not have the tactical nuance we require. I still cannot fathom out his tactical style.
I feel the coming season is going to be very difficult for us.

Out of interest, what is it that qualifies you to identify the tactical nuance we need that Clement, someone who has actually spent his entire career working in professional football, can’t?
 
In a sense you are correct, and I totally agree, pre season games mean sod all.

But are supporters not allowed to express an opinion on what they've witnessed? Because that was not a newly assembled team out there yesterday, it was mostly the same old, turgid, one-paced guff. Only when Matondo and Yilmaz came on did we see a wee bit pressure or movement.

Who is seeing potential in that display yesterday? Do you honestly believe that lot become 'best in class' in a fortnight? Because I have to tell you it ain't happening bud.
Absolutely fans are allowed to express it. I just feel it's a bit early to be going in hard, thread after thread, on the doom mongering stuff.

By all means, people are entitled to pessimism; but with 6 weeks left of the window, it's entirely too early for me.
 
Absolutely fans are allowed to express it. I just feel it's a bit early to be going in hard, thread after thread, on the doom mongering stuff.

By all means, people are entitled to pessimism; but with 6 weeks left of the window, it's entirely too early for me.

You're outlook, I don't have a problem with.

It's not the six weeks left of the window that troubles me, but what happens on the park within it.
 
At our peak under Clement we have the Betis away and the demolition of Hearts as the peak, I think to look for an improvement on that after 2 pre season games is a reach however that needs to become our base standard.
The gaffer knows this, we are by no means great but hardly moved backwards from the shitshow of a pre season and recruitment fiasco from this time last year and Clement still raised a trophy, Europe after Christmas and a title fight from nowhere. None of us seen that coming and we can only hope for the magic of football that Clement with a couple of big signings being touted that we consistently hit last seasons peak results.
 
Absolutely fans are allowed to express it. I just feel it's a bit early to be going in hard, thread after thread, on the doom mongering stuff.

By all means, people are entitled to pessimism; but with 6 weeks left of the window, it's entirely too early for me.
Folk have been at it since Ross County and Dundee, been bubbling for a while
 
At our peak under Clement we have the Betis away and the demolition of Hearts as the peak, I think to look for an improvement on that after 2 pre season games is a reach however that needs to become our base standard.
The gaffer knows this, we are by no means great but hardly moved backwards from the shitshow of a pre season and recruitment fiasco from this time last year and Clement still raised a trophy, Europe after Christmas and a title fight from nowhere. None of us seen that coming and we can only hope for the magic of football that Clement with a couple of big signings being touted that we consistently hit last seasons peak results.

Has the manager himself just told us that he won't be buying anymore till he sells?

Who wants the deadwood we want to get rid of?
 
I thought getting rid of Tav was going to solve all of our problems overnight?

Aye, we as a support should just have a desire to relentlessly continue what we have been doing the last few years because it’s worked so well domesticslly

We have needed to gut what was and a total change of ethos that wasn’t going to happen in the space of 2 games for %^*& sake and no one thought it would.

Listen to our manager now and then, he’s asked for a bit of time he should be afforded that.
 
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Has the manager himself just told us that he won't be buying anymore till he sells?

Who wants the deadwood we want to get rid of?
Every manager has a big enough ego to think they can improve a player. Someone will think he can make Wright better, Dessers more aware, Matondo a better decision maker.
We'll have to drop money, but we need fresh blood especially up front.
 
His job, he's the manager, we are a shambles on the pitch.
We aren’t a shambles on the pitch for as bad as we are. We won the league cup last year and were very close to a treble.

However, fundamentally the players aren’t good enough. It’s that simple. Some can show glimpses and maybe go on a few game streak of looking very good but when it comes down to it they don’t have the consistency or skill to beat Celtic across a full season.

For me it doesn’t really matter who we have as manager as these players will continue to disappoint.

We are getting to the point now where we would struggle to have players on the bench of a combined old firm team. That’s not acceptable and no manager has a chance when that’s the case.
 
Every manager has a big enough ego to think they can improve a player. Someone will think he can make Wright better, Dessers more aware, Matondo a better decision maker.
We'll have to drop money, but we need fresh blood especially up front.

Dessers is what? 29 years of age? How are you going to make him more aware? It's not happening.

I love Matondo's pace and enthusiasm. But...

I'm sorry, it's just not there with Wright.

With the three you have mentioned, we don't need the present manager, we need Merlin.
 
We aren’t a shambles on the pitch for as bad as we are. We won the league cup last year and were very close to a treble.

However, fundamentally the players aren’t good enough. It’s that simple. Some can show glimpses and maybe go on a few game streak of looking very good but when it comes down to it they don’t have the consistency or skill to beat Celtic across a full season.

For me it doesn’t really matter who we have as manager as these players will continue to disappoint.

We are getting to the point now where we would struggle to have players on the bench of a combined old firm team. That’s not acceptable and no manager has a chance when that’s the case.
Close to a treble? How close? We lot 4 out of 5 games vs celtc, the league was gone well before end of the season and we lost a cup final to them, in Clement's 4th outing vs them without win.

I swear just featuring in finals is all that some of our fans hope for now. A big day out against celtic for them is what it seems to be. Now that is depressing.
 
The honest truth is some people are putting 100% trust in Clement because that’s all they can do to keep themselves sane. They would rather believe we have the right manager and all that’s needed is time and proper recruitment - because the only other possibility is that the board have hired the wrong man yet again and ultimately it would be the final confirmation that we are progressing nowhere with the current executive leadership.

I get it. I get why people don’t want to consider that possibility. It’s nightmare fuel as there is absolutely no easy way out of it.

Also consider I haven’t called PC a bad manager - I said wrong man. The guy obviously has previous success but that’s no guarantee that he can replicate it here. Football ain’t as simple as hiring the guy with the best CV.

So it all comes down to whether the board and PC have made errors in their initial assessment of each other and the squad. Referring back to the start of my post… people want the simple answer that it’s all the boards fault and that Clement has been sold a unicorn because it means they can direct their anger at one thing and find solace in a siege defence of the manager.

The reality is that both parties have made mistakes and this is why we are where we are.
 
Close to a treble? How close? We lot 4 out of 5 games vs celtc, the league was gone well before end of the season and we lost a cup final to them, in Clement's 4th outing vs them without win.

I swear just featuring in finals is all that some of our fans hope for now. A big day out against celtic for them is what it seems to be. Now that is depressing.
Yeah close.

A 90th minute winner in the final in a pretty even contest and fundamentally had the league in our hands with weeks to go. So yeah we were close.

Btw I never thought we would win the league at any stage unlike most on here as I’ve been pretty consistent with my opinion of this squad since the Gerrard Gio handover. Still am.

Seems some fans still can’t get their head round the fact players aren’t good enough. Head in sand stuff.

I go to games expecting the worse now, so yes, that is depressing.
 
Yeah close.

A 90th minute winner in the final in a pretty even contest and fundamentally had the league in our hands with weeks to go. So yeah we were close.

Btw I never thought we would win the league at any stage unlike most on here as I’ve been pretty consistent with my opinion of this squad since the Gerrard Gio handover. Still am.

Seems some fans still can’t get their head round the fact players aren’t good enough. Head in sand stuff.


I go to games expecting the worse now, so yes, that is depressing.
Oh you are 100% spot on there mate and that is the crux of the problem. I said the same as Clement came in as people fooled themselves into that squad had anything about themselves.
 
The squad is rotten, but there’s red flags galore with the manager also.

The way he’s setting us up is awful to watch. There’s no attacking flair or intent.

Poor start to the season and we know how this ends.

Our attacking flair came from right back.

He inherited an absolute shit show from beale.

Clement deserves his chance to build his own team.

He is not getting that support.
 
Our attacking flair came from right back.

He inherited an absolute shit show from beale.

Clement deserves his chance to build his own team.

He is not getting that support.

I don't think many fans will dispute that, but after yesterday, and Ajax, and after a couple of weeks on the training field with them, Clement had many of his own players start and feature in both games and yet we haven't really seen anything so far that suggests he is working on something different to what failed us last season.

A new style of play, formations and tactics etc. doesn't require new signings.
 
Our attacking flair came from right back.

He inherited an absolute shit show from beale.

Clement deserves his chance to build his own team.

He is not getting that support.
He has already made 7 signings so far and only 2 of them are guaranteed starters. He’s not going to be signing a whole new squad so will have to make do with a lot of the players he already has.

Gio and Beale didn’t exactly sign loads more than he has.
 
He has already made 7 signings so far and only 2 of them are guaranteed starters. He’s not going to be signing a whole new squad so will have to make do with a lot of the players he already has.

Gio and Beale didn’t exactly sign loads more than he has.

Beale spent well over £10m on lammers, danilo and dessers.

Gio inherited stevie g squad and got us to the europa final. Then had to sell two of his biggest assets in aribo and Bassey.

Clement has been dealt a shitty hand and been given nothing to repair it.

I don't really know what he can do as there is little quality to work with

He will have to rely on youngsters at some point.
 
Beale spent well over £10m on lammers, danilo and dessers.

Gio inherited stevie g squad and got us to the europa final. Then had to sell two of his biggest assets in aribo and Bassey.

Clement has been dealt a shitty hand and been given nothing to repair it.

I don't really know what he can do as there is little quality to work with

He will have to rely on youngsters at some point.
He has spent about £7m so far and has 2 guaranteed starters from 7 signings. He should have been concentrating on getting in quality to improve the starting 11 with the champions league qualifiers coming up. Instead he and Koppen have targeted project players that aren’t even ready to start games.
 
We don't have the squad...
The excuse we keep on hearing.
To compete with Celtic - agreed
To complete in Europe - agreed
To compete against the rest of this league? - not having it.

What kind of squad do the teams we struggle to play against have?

We've watched Ross County with a poor squad pump us.
We've watched Dundee with a poor squad give us the run around.

Our football style is an absolute reflection of our manager. It has to be.
 
Clement needs a few windows and some money to change things.
I was critical yesterday but as it stands he is trying to move players on and bring players in with his hands tied.
He can’t make a club want to sign Lammers,Hagi or Davies which in turn means he can’t bring in the players he would really want.
The damage was done last summer and it won’t be an overnight fix despite what we all hope for.
In an ideal world all those guys would be gone already but they’re not so that’s what we are dealing with.
An example situation..who would be happy to punt Lammers and Dessers and bring in Shankland and McBurnie?
That would bring in much needed funds and I would hope reduce our wage bill and they would be a real improvement
 
He has spent about £7m so far and has 2 guaranteed starters from 7 signings. He should have been concentrating on getting in quality to improve the starting 11 with the champions league qualifiers coming up. Instead he and Koppen have targeted project players that aren’t even ready to start games.

To be fair he's signed some younger players to make up that 7.
And would we not expect Barron, Cortes and Diomande to start?

I'm not making excuses because we would expect Diomande (who has looked decent) and Cortes to deliver with their fees.

However the reality is you will always get a percentage fall out from signings -not the news we want with the squad we have but reality.

Our signings should be as low risk as possible-the money spent on Lammers and Dessers considering their CV's looks criminal.

I get PC has to deliver but by god he has inherited some size of a job-if you throw in the exit of established players it is in theory even bigger now.
 
Has the manager himself just told us that he won't be buying anymore till he sells?

Who wants the deadwood we want to get rid of?
Steer my post whoever you see fit, Rae has just told us there is a bid for our Captain, Cantwell agent has been touting him around Italy and ITK posters are saying there will be surprises at the standard of targets being lined up to come in.
Posters seem to be writing off an entire season at worse and at best disregarding there are 6 weeks of the window left AND the same failures under Beale still navigated Servette, drew with PSV at home before being humbled by an extremely decent CL Quality side in the 2nd leg.
 
I actually think we are getting worse. We still have a few weeks to make signings but it's not looking good at the moment is it?
Every day I check in hoping we sign someone decent, or even just sign someone, and its sickening, squad is weaker this season
 
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Has the manager himself just told us that he won't be buying anymore till he sells?

Who wants the deadwood we want to get rid of?
There’s the problem, we have a barrow load of guff that we can’t move on because they won’t get the same wages elsewhere, the likes of Davies, Wright, Dessers, Matondo, Lammers and a few others will just sit it out, in the meantime we can’t afford to replace them.
 
Out of interest, what is it that qualifies you to identify the tactical nuance we need that Clement, someone who has actually spent his entire career working in professional football, can’t?
Simple as fook. I have played and watched football all my life. I have witnessed different styles of football all my days. Some good some shit.
I can identify managers advocating open free flowing expansive football and others who stick to a more cautious negative approach. I have seen managers get results from each style. Last season I could not work out what approach our players had been coached to do.
In short my eyes qualify me.
Out of interest, what is it that qualifies you to identify the tactical nuance we need that Clement, someone who has actually spent his entire career working in professional football, can’t?
 
He has spent about £7m so far and has 2 guaranteed starters from 7 signings. He should have been concentrating on getting in quality to improve the starting 11 with the champions league qualifiers coming up. Instead he and Koppen have targeted project players that aren’t even ready to start games.

Am not much disagreeing with you.

The 4.5 for Diomande replaces lundstram. And Barron is good business.

Cortez is a loan and after his injury it is the right thing to do. We have lost sima and silva is gone too. So for me, we are short there.

After that he has spent less than £2m. We will be very lucky to get any starters for that money. Jefte and igamane are unlikely to start unless they develop quickly.

I feel he is being told to target young players with potential to get the club a big profit.
 
Am not much disagreeing with you.

The 4.5 for Diomande replaces lundstram. And Barron is good business.

Cortez is a loan and after his injury it is the right thing to do. We have lost sima and silva is gone too. So for me, we are short there.

After that he has spent less than £2m. We will be very lucky to get any starters for that money. Jefte and igamane are unlikely to start unless they develop quickly.

I feel he is being told to target young players with potential to get the club a big profit.
Look at our 55 team. Most of our best signings cost nothing or came for buttons. You can find quality starters on the cheap if you look hard enough.
 
Clement needs a few windows and some money to change things.
I was critical yesterday but as it stands he is trying to move players on and bring players in with his hands tied.
He can’t make a club want to sign Lammers,Hagi or Davies which in turn means he can’t bring in the players he would really want.
The damage was done last summer and it won’t be an overnight fix despite what we all hope for.
In an ideal world all those guys would be gone already but they’re not so that’s what we are dealing with.
An example situation..who would be happy to punt Lammers and Dessers and bring in Shankland and McBurnie?
That would bring in much needed funds and I would hope reduce our wage bill and they would be a real improvement
McBurnie and Shankland doesn't excite me one bit, don't see our chances any better off with those 2 than Dessers and Danilo. Our team /squad will improve if we can offload and gain decent fees for Lammers, Hagi and Davies that mean our front option suddenly becomes Dessers, Danilo, Shankland A.N Other/or McBurnie
 
Look at our 55 team. Most of our best signings cost nothing or came for buttons. You can find quality starters on the cheap if you look hard enough.
Did we not spend big fees on Roofe, Itten, Helander and Hagi permanent the year we won 55?
 
Is sterling at RB an upgrade though? We haven't seen a lot of him there and he hasn't exactly set the Heather alight when he has played there. He has looked at his best in CM giving us legs in there.
His natural position apparently but on the evidence in a Rangers jersey I'd rather see him in the middle
 
Did we not spend big fees on Roofe, Itten, Helander and Hagi permanent the year we won 55?
I said most of. I didn’t say the whole team was free. I’m talking about the players in that team and not just the signings that season. I’ve not worded it great in that post

McGregor, Davis, Jack, Kamara, Arfield, Defoe, Tav, Morelos off the top of my head. All cheap or free.
 
McBurnie and Shankland doesn't excite me one bit, don't see our chances any better off with those 2 than Dessers and Danilo. Our team /squad will improve if we can offload and gain decent fees for Lammers, Hagi and Davies that mean our front option suddenly becomes Dessers, Danilo, Shankland A.N Other/or McBurnie
We need rid of Dessers as well.Shankland is an instant improvement and McBurnie is a different kind of player who could give us a different option.
And also free
 
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