VAR should have been switched at Coventry's "fourth" goal

Valley Bluenose said:
Its wildly off topic but I found out, for the first time, that they don't use Hawkeye goal line technology in La Liga at the weekend. Barca had an attempt against Real Madrid that looked fully over the goal line. No Hawkeye and the VAR stuck with the Referee's call of no goal.

Seems La Liga don't want to pay the circa £2.6m setup costs. Only major League that doesn't have it I believe.
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It was never over the line!! :D :D
 
BlancaBear said:
I'm I the only one that thinks if your offside your offside?

Don't really get this whole "he's only a tiny bit offside, should have just let him off cos it would have been a great moment".
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And again, you don't solve the issue as the close decision just shifts based on whatever new rule they come up with.
 
DBallZ said:
How does VAR determine the true moment that the ball is passed to the player?
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I guess it’s the timestamp of the ball as it comes away from your foot / head / whatever measured against the same timestamp of the receiving player which they then draw the line touchline to touchline and Clancy or Collum then make up a decision depending on what’s best outcome for Ira FC .
 
ChildOfGoth said:
I guess it’s the timestamp of the ball as it comes away from your foot / head / whatever measured against the same timestamp of the receiving player which they then draw the line touchline to touchline and Clancy or Collum then make up a decision depending on what’s best outcome for Ira FC .
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You could easily say that the player passing the ball does so the split second he touches it. That's what effects the path of the ball.

Milliseconds anywhere in that sequence can lead to a player being onside/offside.

The whole thing around offsides is a joke in my opinion and I'm surprised it is being tolerated.
 
Timardim said:
VAR has done it job ...but the the big question is , and has been for a long time ...The offside rule was introduced originally to stop one side/ player gaining an unfair advantage on another... We all get that , .but where is the advantage in being 2 inches nearer the ball than your opponent , because of your footing ? It's not VAR spoiling the game , it's the daft current offside ruling.
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The advantage is you are 2 inches closer to the ball which can be the difference between scoring or not.
 
scottishpoet said:
the VAR protocol used in England does not allow for any tolerance for an offside

my view is it should be the linesman who decides and VAR intervenes if it is a clear an obvious error

lines with 1 pixel difference is not a clear and obvious error
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So how do you define it. If it’s becomes 10 pixels you will have the same arguement for someone who is off by 11 pixels etc.
 
When VAR was first mooted, the impression was given it was only intended to stop clear and obvious errors. Instead goals are being disallowed for players being one millimetre offside. It's turning football into some dour science.
 
van Rottenbottom said:
When VAR was first mooted, the impression was given it was only intended to stop clear and obvious errors. Instead goals are being disallowed for players being one millimetre offside. It's turning football into some dour science.
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You've misunderstood it then. The matter of 'clear and obvious errors' related to subjective decisions. Was it a bad foul, was his hand in an unnatural position etc? Offside if not a subjective decision, it is factual. You are either offside or you are not. Same as using Hawkeye, the ball is either over the line or it isn't. 'Clear and obvious error' was never related to offside decisions.

Good breakdown of offside decisions here:

www.premierleague.com

How offsides are determined by VAR

See how the Video Assistant Referee uses Hawk-Eye to make offside decisions
www.premierleague.com www.premierleague.com
 
scottishpoet said:
the VAR protocol used in England does not allow for any tolerance for an offside

my view is it should be the linesman who decides and VAR intervenes if it is a clear an obvious error

lines with 1 pixel difference is not a clear and obvious error
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This for me ^^^^
The linesmen are given a totally mental position, after years of flagging immediately, they now have to wait for play to roll on. Tell the Lino to raise his flag when he sees something and then let the ref decide if he is going to let it roll on, or stop play. If it rolls on and the team score, then check if the linesman was correct without the need for lines. Just stop the picture as the ball leaves the players foot, and if the player looks off, then cancel the goal. If it looks close/even give the attacker the benefit of the doubt. The Lino’s are refs, so why take the decision away from them?, they have trained and studied the game for years. ( no laughing please!)
 
Alex Boyce said:
They have ruined football! When the offside roule was first used it was to stop players standing near enough next to the keeper and still score a legitimate goal ' now its the length off someone's toe
And what happened to giving the scorer the benefit of doubt?
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This.
 
HarryBosch said:
The advantage is you are 2 inches closer to the ball which can be the difference between scoring or not.
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Depends on the angle and the position of the ball and if the ball is travelling on the ground , .if the balls in mid air and your opponent is nearer to the ball than you then there is no advantage , but because of the lines they draw you are deemed offside , even though you are not gaining any advantage. and technically speaking you are further away from the ball. As I said the current offside ruling is spoiling the game and not VAR
 
scottishpoet said:
the VAR protocol used in England does not allow for any tolerance for an offside

my view is it should be the linesman who decides and VAR intervenes if it is a clear an obvious error

lines with 1 pixel difference is not a clear and obvious error
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Offside is offside, it’s the rule that needs to change
 
Wilso54 said:
We are at a point where you really can't celebrate a goal until 5 minutes later.
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Im
Definately not as excited when a goal goes in because if we’re going by our disallowed goal v Celtic it can be brought back for ages to look at any slight issue
 
Wilso54 said:
We are at a point where you really can't celebrate a goal until 5 minutes later.
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Maybe but it is worth it to the scoring team if the goal is the correct decision and worth it to the opposing team if the decision is wrong to give the goal!

Win win for the game if using VAR helps get the correct decision for the sport itself!
 
douzpwa said:
Was the correct decision made not by VAR but by the person operating the equipment or did it ruin your wants with the decision Johnny?
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Was it the correct decision though? Can they say with 100% certainty that they reached the right outcome?
 
KennyRfC said:
Anyone who wants rid of var needs to remember we lost a cup final because a celtic supporter ignored a blatant offside which var would have caught.
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Uch he was only offside a wee bit. Chopping such goals off is ruining the spirit of the game.
 
scottishpoet said:
the VAR protocol used in England does not allow for any tolerance for an offside

my view is it should be the linesman who decides and VAR intervenes if it is a clear an obvious error

lines with 1 pixel difference is not a clear and obvious error
Click to expand...
Yup. I would change the offside rule to be in front you have to be a proper body part in front of the defender. If your big toe is ahead or feet level but head slightly in front, that should be classed level and therefore not offside. Would take the spirit of the law in that level decision goes attackers way. VAR now mostly means the defender has the benefit of doubt given they will mostly be moving away from the goal while the attacker moves towards it and head can be forward.
 
Johnny Yen said:
Was it the correct decision though? Can they say with 100% certainty that they reached the right outcome?
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I don't think using VAR has ever achieved 100% accuracy. Nor do I think it was ever expected to achieve that. I'm sure I remember from the first World Cup it was used in - Russia 2018 - that they determined it had increased the number of correct decisions from around 95% to something like 99%. You'd expect that to be even higher now, but only marginally.

Whether the reported numbers are true is up for debate, but here's one of the reports, including Collina's take on it:

www.africanews.com

Russia 2018: the World Cup where VAR made the difference | Africanews

The use of the VAR system was approved in March by the rule-making body IFAB, despite controversy in some of the competitions in which it has been trialled over the time taken to make decisions and la
www.africanews.com www.africanews.com
 
two2tango said:
Correct.

If it’s that close you need to draw lines it’s not offside imo

The law needs to change for these instances

As an attacker you look across the line to try and stay inside if your big toes offside then ffs how can you compensate for that

I think they should the offside law to be if any part of your body is in line with the last defender then it’s onside this toenail nonsense has to stop
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This doesn't change anything. It still means tiny measures to work out if a player is offside. You're just changing where you're measuring from.

Think about the speed limit. If it's 70MPH, you're speeding if you're doing 70.1MPH. Increase it to 80MPH. Now you're speeding if you're doing 80.1MPH.
 
Bristol_bnose3 said:
Load of shite. Even with the lines it was hard to tell what they were proving one way or the other.

If it's that close, and the linesman didnt flag in the first place, the goal should stand.

Game is being wrecked by this nonsense.
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Totally agree.
 
For me, the bigger question is..."does VAR bring more objectivity to decisions than there was before?" If we accept on balance that it does, then football should stick with it, and seek to improve the way it is applied in practice. Any supporter will, from time to time, love it or hate it depending on whether the last decision went for or against their team.

Oh, and the Coventry player was offside...
 
scottishpoet said:
the VAR protocol used in England does not allow for any tolerance for an offside

my view is it should be the linesman who decides and VAR intervenes if it is a clear an obvious error

lines with 1 pixel difference is not a clear and obvious error
Click to expand...
Totally agree. And for all those sticklers for 'offside is offside', well the rule needs to be changed. As the OP says, that offside call yesterday ruined the spectacle of probably the greatest comeback in the history of the FA Cup for everyone in the country and round the world, bar Man Utd players, staff and supporters. I know a few solutions have been suggested and I'm not sure what the best answer is, but it's certainly not the current one. It's sucking the life, spontaneity and euphoria out of the game way too often.
 
Viatrophy said:
Literally just watched the highlights. Very unfortunate for Coventry but the correct decision was made. This is exactly why VAR was brought in.
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Is it the correct decision? If we're defending offside being given for less than the length of a human toe then we've absolutely fucked the game of football beyond something that's still worth caring about.
 
Big D said:
Totally agree. And for all those sticklers for 'offside is offside', well the rule needs to be changed. As the OP says, that offside call yesterday ruined the spectacle of probably the greatest comeback in the history of the FA Cup for everyone in the country and round the world, bar Man Utd players, staff and supporters. I know a few solutions have been suggested and I'm not sure what the best answer is, but it's certainly not the current one. It's sucking the life, spontaneity and euphoria out of the game way too often.
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Had Coventry been 3-0 ahead and Man Utd clawed it back to 'win' it with that offside goal would that still apply? Romantic nonsense I fancy.

Had Rangers scored that 'goal' to win something we'd have been enraged that it was disallowed. Had we conceded that 'goal' to lose a match we'd have been delighted to see it chalked off. He's either offside or not, all the rest is just window dressing around the particular circumstances of the match.
 
KennyRfC said:
Anyone who wants rid of var needs to remember we lost a cup final because a celtic supporter ignored a blatant offside which var would have caught.
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Celtc-supporting refs and VAR find ways to disallow legitimate goals we do score, mate.
 
Bristol_bnose3 said:
Load of shite. Even with the lines it was hard to tell what they were proving one way or the other.

If it's that close, and the linesman didnt flag in the first place, the goal should stand.

Game is being wrecked by this nonsense.
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If we lost a European final in the 94th minute to a goal identical to the one Coventry thought they’d scored, the reaction would be very different I suspect :D
 
VGM said:
If we lost a European final in the 94th minute to a goal identical to the one Coventry thought they’d scored, the reaction would be very different I suspect :D
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that’s why it’s good to debate incidents that don’t involve us, so you can get a more balanced argument than “corrupt bead rattler with whistle destroyed our euro hopes on orders from Lawell”.
 
scottishpoet said:
the VAR protocol used in England does not allow for any tolerance for an offside

my view is it should be the linesman who decides and VAR intervenes if it is a clear an obvious error

lines with 1 pixel difference is not a clear and obvious error
Click to expand...
Clear and obvious means no intervention where it’s down to interpretation. Like the forcefulness of a tackle, or whether something is a foul or not.

Offside is offside. It’s a clear and obvious error if you draw a line and someone is a mm over the line.
 
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