Abolish Offside? Discussion
- Thread starter Unicorse
- Start date
Flagg
Active Member
The law is fine as it is, hopefully with the Premier League and La Liga bringing in the semi-automated offside technology - which is already used in Serie A and the Champions League - we’ll start to see an end to the moaning over the rule.
I suppose folk will always find something to complain about though
I suppose folk will always find something to complain about though
GovanFrontLoyal
Well-Known Member
Abolishing it would be mental, I think there needs to be some amendment to the rule though as have longer fingers than your opponent and being offside by a nail is fucking stupid.
Polar bear
Well-Known Member
And for us old football purists,VAR is absolutely no part of the beautiful game.
Ampersand
Well-Known Member
I think there are different types of offside and that it would clear up a few of the 'tight' decisions if we were to differentiate between these different types of offside.
LCF in 2019 - Jullian is offside and scores directly from the FK - decision, NO GOAL.
Sunday's FA Cup semi - the player adjudged to be offside, slows play down and lets the defending team get back behind the ball, said player crosses ball forward, to a player ONSIDE who scores. Decision GOAL.
The attacking player whose big toes was offside is being unduly punished for a minor infraction despite the defending team getting back behind the ball nullifying his initial offside.
Confused? or makes sense?
LCF in 2019 - Jullian is offside and scores directly from the FK - decision, NO GOAL.
Sunday's FA Cup semi - the player adjudged to be offside, slows play down and lets the defending team get back behind the ball, said player crosses ball forward, to a player ONSIDE who scores. Decision GOAL.
The attacking player whose big toes was offside is being unduly punished for a minor infraction despite the defending team getting back behind the ball nullifying his initial offside.
Confused? or makes sense?
TheDerryend
Well-Known Member
This. The game is all about goals, no goals, game dies.
We all want to see attacking football and the attacking side really should get the benefit of the doubt.
One of the best changes brought in was to stop the passback to the goalie, to keep the game moving. We're going to end up with forwards hanging back further than they need to, if this keeps going the way it is.
Gringotts Dragon
Well-Known Member
But there would still be lines getting drawn on VAR, they’d just be looking at a different point on the pitch.
chilebear
Well-Known Member
Hi DessersObviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game
The main reason is:
- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'
- the thickness of the lines
- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)
Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing
Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch
Another suggestion is scrap offside completely
They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties
Is it worth doing the same with offside?
Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West
I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]staceywest.net
Discuss
, Cracking goals you scored at the weekend,Nice one
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
EPL bringing in the semi-automated stuff used in the Champions Legaue next season. Far superior.
We spend a lot of time debating "wrong" decisions and ignore all the correct ones. I'm pretty sure there are more errors corrected by VAR than missed. But timings need to speed up and refs need more training to get the judgmental aspects (eg unnatural arms) more consistent. It doesn't help that handballs in England and Scotland seem different!
Refereed by Martin O'Neill?
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Arguably already happens though, with the Linesmen instructed to keep their flag down if there is an element of doubt over the offside. Back in my day, it was more likely that the flag would be raised if there was any doubt and play halted immediately.
The attacker is allowed to go on and score his 'goal' - if he does - and then the technology assesses whether he was, in fact (not opinion) offside.
The speed of decision is the biggest bugbear here and, in the EPL at least, that will be addressed next season with the semi-automated technology.
senefelder
Well-Known Member
A well articulated post. Football seems almost unique in it's aversion to accept factual decisions, ''he was only JUST offside''. No one in tennis bemoans a hawkeye call which deems a serve at match point to be millimetres out, or a similar LBW call in cricket or sports such as athletics or swimming which can be decided by hundreds of a second. VAR can and will be tweaked and fine tuned, personally I would put a time limit on subjective calls like penalty decisions etc, but off side is the least of it's problems.
Agreed and it doesn't help that quite a lot of people don't understand why Linesmen don't flag straight away. How often do you hear "how did the Lino miss that?" Especially when he/she is fifth in the (decision) pecking order after the ref, VAR, Stewart then Sutton!
wullies bunion
Well-Known Member
Go back to the one player and the goalkeeper between the attacker and the goal line.advantage given to the attacker if too close to call.
To be fair, van Basten is a nut-job as well .
Bluerhap
Well-Known Member
This would be the logical answer, it would make it easier for on field officials but then VAR would take an age to verify and we would be back to square one.
Absolutely.
No more arguments about VAR and stupid lines.
No more cheats with a flag.
Loads more goals, much more entertainment.
Can only be good for the game.
Yes, we would still have arguments about fouls in the lead-ups to goals and handball, but some of the ridiculous offside decisions given by VAR would never be an issue again. Particularly annoying ones where a goal is ruled out because a player was in the line of sight of the goalkeeper and in an offside position..
Absolute poppycock
I’ve always thought offside was a stupid rule.
Additional bonus. Dessers would score loads. Downside, so would Darwin Nunes.
No more arguments about VAR and stupid lines.
No more cheats with a flag.
Loads more goals, much more entertainment.
Can only be good for the game.
Yes, we would still have arguments about fouls in the lead-ups to goals and handball, but some of the ridiculous offside decisions given by VAR would never be an issue again. Particularly annoying ones where a goal is ruled out because a player was in the line of sight of the goalkeeper and in an offside position..
Absolute poppycock
I’ve always thought offside was a stupid rule.
Additional bonus. Dessers would score loads. Downside, so would Darwin Nunes.
chilebear
Well-Known Member
I've never heard of this.
What is the new technology?
Grumpy Old Git
Well-Known Member
I always thought Var was sold on the premise it would help referees and ultimately get more decisions correct but not all decisions.
Where subjectivity is part of the process this will always lend itself to decisions being disputed debated and just plain wrong.
The problem in Scotland is exacerbated by poorer referees and the cheapo VAR system employed in Scotland.
In England professional referees and the number of cameras used to give definitive angles is 5 or 6 times the number than in Scotland.
It still doesn’t get things right and the biggest example was Everton v Nottingham Forest where Forest were denied 3 penalties including a couple of stonewallers.
Taylor allegedly in top bracket of referees got at least 2/3 wrong and VAR did not help by not intervening.
Similarly last night Middlesbrough v Leeds an offside goal was scored 3rd goal without the presence of VAR.
A crucial goal in terms of potential promotion to the promised land of EPL.
Definitely would have been picked up by VAR.
It ain’t perfect for sure.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Used in Champions League. You may remember it from our Play-Off against PSV. Dessers looked offside when he received the ball before playing that exquisite pass for Matondo to score. We had the 'not offside' decision very quickly complete with AI generated imagery to support it. Uses player-tracking tech and has a chip in the ball itself - assuming they go for the same as UEFA.
Less than a minute for a very, very tight call (shame the video doesn't show the graphic):
WilkinsBullet
Well-Known Member
I suggest building a moat in front of the 18 yard line and filling it with hungry crocodiles. Only if a striker falls in it can he be called offside.
Bit late for that , it's currently being ruined by the offside rules not VAR.
Post 19 wins it for me ...only offside if it's the offenders full body. Offside is presently being given even in some cases when the deemed offender isn't even gaining any advantage, which contends with the reason why it was introduced in the first place..The rule definitely needs amending.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Then we'd be down to arguing if it actually was his full body or if there was a 1mm overlap.
Any line, any where is going to be debated down to the last 1mm. Shifting the line resolves nothing. Wherever the line is, wherever the player is, there comes a point where you say his is, or isn't, offside. Its factual rather than a matter of opinion.
Not "fact" at all.
The time it takes a toe to go offside must be identical to the time a toe travels the same distance to make contact with the ball.
A camera in direct line with the "offside" player can't possibly guarantee that the two events are precisely simultaneous when we're talking about tiny fractions of a second.
A ludicrous, spoiler of a rule which is derogatory to football.
JeffreySpauIding
Well-Known Member
Just keep it the way it is. People just cry about correct decisions that go against them.
If they are just offside then they are offside. It doesn't change because you don't want it to happen. Clear and obvious error and all that bollocks people go on about is just to find a way to moan about the right decision.
If they are just offside then they are offside. It doesn't change because you don't want it to happen. Clear and obvious error and all that bollocks people go on about is just to find a way to moan about the right decision.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
It is better than relying on a Linesman with his peripheral vision trying to see the attacking player, the defender and the man making the pass all at the same time. Something we relied upon for over a hundred years despite its 'clear and obvious'
flaws. I know which I think is more 'derogatory' to ensuring the correct outcome - and its not the tech.
Simple as that. Although I like the proposed change. It only moves the point of reference but interesting nonetheless
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Semi-automated VAR, to be introduced to the EPL next season, as used in the Champions League addresses your latter point.
For your first point, we'd then simply be down to debating whether there actually is daylight between the defender and attacker or whether there is actually a 1mm overlap. Moving the line solves nothing, it simply moves the debate to a different point.
Still leaves a judgement to be made which could be with the same degree of difficulty, but just in a slightly different area. The full body could be millimetres onside or offside, leading to the same arguments.
I think the " unfairness " of the offside rule is when they decide to go back as much as 2/3 minutes in some cases , even though the deemed offender hasn't gained any advantage in the said passage of play.
That is something which would also to be looked at if it were introduced. I'm sure , given the importance of getting it correct the erudites in our game could come up with something to prevent that situation .I don't have the answer , do you ? One thing for sure is the current set up in the offside ruling isn't helping the game and time it was looked at.
The Gooner
Well-Known Member
I would say that if any part of the attackers body is onside then the goal should stand.
DavieCooper on the wing
Well-Known Member
It should have to be full body offside not a toe an elbow or anything stupid.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
The attacker gains his advantage through the Linesman, as he's instructed, keeping his flag down for close decisions and allowing him to go on and score his 'goal'. Subject to it then being reviewed. In my day the flag would have gone up straight away and you'd be goosed.
As I've said, ad nauseum now, moving the line solves nothing it simply relocates the area of debate. Nothing changes.
I have no beef with the current implementation with the exception of the time taken on some tight decisions. The semi-automated stuff in the Champions League reduces that considerably (see Matondo goal I linked above) and will be introduced in England next season.
How we speed things up in the SPFL is a different matter. We're the equivalent of a Farmers League compared to those competitions.
Last edited:
stein and johnston
Well-Known Member
Apologies in advance if this has already been mentioned.
They trialed something similar in the 70s in a tournament called the Drybrough Cup..
You couldn’t be offside up to the 18 yard line.
If my memory serves me well it only lasted a couple of years.
They trialed something similar in the 70s in a tournament called the Drybrough Cup..
You couldn’t be offside up to the 18 yard line.
If my memory serves me well it only lasted a couple of years.
MosesMcNeil99
Well-Known Member
Offside is vital for the game to work correctly throughout every minute of the 90. Outrageous idea.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Trialled for three years -72,73 and 74. Was a waste of time so got binned..
archimedes
Well-Known Member
I'm not bothered about the offside rule, but one way to make it more interesting would be to make it so that players are only offside if the ball is played from their own half or from a dead ball (free kick etc).
When teams are moving from their own half into the opposition half, the defending team all tend to move back into their own half anyway (unless it is a fast break counterattack).
When the ball is carried across the half way line, the defending team are usually in a defensive formation in their own half. This means that you wouldn't get the usual situation people complain would happen if offside was scrapped, ie a bunch of players waiting on the 18 yard line for the ball to be played up to them.
You would still get the defending team sitting reasonably deep, but it would stretch the game more, with wingers able to play further forward and players running in behind their markers through the channels.
I think it would increase the likelihood of defence splitting passes being played, which means more attractive football to watch.
When teams are moving from their own half into the opposition half, the defending team all tend to move back into their own half anyway (unless it is a fast break counterattack).
When the ball is carried across the half way line, the defending team are usually in a defensive formation in their own half. This means that you wouldn't get the usual situation people complain would happen if offside was scrapped, ie a bunch of players waiting on the 18 yard line for the ball to be played up to them.
You would still get the defending team sitting reasonably deep, but it would stretch the game more, with wingers able to play further forward and players running in behind their markers through the channels.
I think it would increase the likelihood of defence splitting passes being played, which means more attractive football to watch.
Flagg
Active Member
A video from before the 2022 World Cup showing how the semi automated offside technology works in FIFA competitions
I think the UEFA version is slightly different as it solely uses camera technology opposed to FIFA who use a chip in the ball in order to determine when the ball has been played
If Rangers get a "Coventry" decision that costs us a win at Hampden or the San Giro, I think you might waver a wee bit on that.It is better than relying on a Linesman with his peripheral vision trying to see the attacking player, the defender and the man making the pass all at the same time. Something we relied upon for over a hundred years despite its 'clear and obvious'
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Of course I would.
On the other hand, if a 'Coventry' decision sees a Dhims goal disallowed it would reinforce my view.That's the problem here, every c*nt feeling sorry for the underdog because 'David' didn't get to beat 'Goliath' on Sunday at Wembley.
Take the emotion out of it when trying to construct, or review, the Laws of the Game.
Noddy
Well-Known Member
It's been tried before, and was a shambles. Also, Wenger is a silly prick.Obviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game
The main reason is:
- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'
- the thickness of the lines
- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)
Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing
Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch
Another suggestion is scrap offside completely
They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties
Is it worth doing the same with offside?
Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West
I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]
Discuss
Tbf 'unicorse' I remember you going completely 'studs up' on one of my posts without reference to what I was trying to get across.
