Abolish Offside? Discussion

Unicorse said:
Obviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game

The main reason is:

- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'

- the thickness of the lines

- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)

Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing


Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch

Another suggestion is scrap offside completely

They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties

Is it worth doing the same with offside?

staceywest.net

Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West

I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]
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I am sure in the 70s in the Texaco cup or something similar there was an experiment that drew a line from apex of the 18
Yard box to the touchline and you couldnt
be off side before that stage of the pitch.
However I have had many beers since
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Used in Champions League. You may remember it from our Play-Off against PSV. Dessers looked offside when he received the ball before playing that exquisite pass for Matondo to score. We had the 'not offside' decision very quickly complete with AI generated imagery to support it. Uses player-tracking tech and has a chip in the ball itself - assuming they go for the same as UEFA.

Less than a minute for a very, very tight call (shame the video doesn't show the graphic):

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Thanks mate, Links not working but it does sound good how youve explained it.
 
chilebear said:
Thanks mate, Links not working but it does sound good how youve explained it.
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Shame about the link, presumably down to your location as its working fine here.

It was a very tight call but it was confirmed in under a minute. That's what we need. Won't see it in Scotland, but due in EPL early in next season.

Read up a bit more and its 12 cameras mounted in the roofs and up to 29 different data points on each player to stablish their precise location, plus the chipped match ball.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Shame about the link, presumably down to your location as its working fine here.

It was a very tight call but it was confirmed in under a minute. That's what we need. Won't see it in Scotland, but due in EPL early in next season.

Read up a bit more and its 12 cameras mounted in the roofs and up to 29 different data points on each player to stablish their precise location, plus the chipped match ball.
Click to expand...
We should be aiming for this. How many stadiums in Scotland could afford it though?
 
I wouldn't drop the offside rule.
It would end up like football tennis.
Teams just punting high balls into the box.
 
chilebear said:
We should be aiming for this. How many stadiums in Scotland could afford it though?
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Two.:) Like VAR I guess it would have to be paid for by all the clubs. It’s a non-starter North of the border. Should resolve the ‘time’ issue in the EPL though .

Looks like the mighty Welsh Premier League are about to introduce a similar VAR Lite to that in use in the SPFL. Nice to know we are in such exalted company.:rolleyes:

news.sky.com

VAR to be introduced in top tier of Welsh football

The Football Association of Wales (FAW) has announced a development plan to improve the Cymru Premier both on and off the pitch.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
Unicorse said:
Which is a shame on this instance

First reply literally replied within the same minute I posted the OP

So had not read the article

Had no intention of discussing the issue

But thankfully there have been some really good insights posted
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And the beauty of this little corner of the internet is, it’s ours and at the end of the day we’re all connected by the same passion.
 
Unicorse said:
Examples being...
Click to expand...
The utter ridiculousness of offside, where in random situations a player isn’t offside, even when he is obviously both offside and ‘interfering with play’ (in old parlance). Bookings for celebrating goals. (Whether going off the pitch or removing a shirt).
Handball (which is somewhat limited in description earlier) where it is based on silhouettes, natural positions and also the outcome (for attackers but not defenders).
Golden goal and silver goal were stupid. And the FA abolishing replays in the FA Cup is rubbish, the ultimate non game related rule changes is FFP which has been introduced, as with all the champions league rule changes in the last 30 years, to make football more boring.
 
No chance.
It just needs some tweaking, but abolition ain’t it, and not what Wenger is calling for.
The Canadian FA trialled this decades ago and all it did was cause teams to create a “static defender” position, i.e. a sweeper who barely moved from the edge of his own penalty box.
 
legalbeagle said:
The utter ridiculousness of offside, where in random situations a player isn’t offside, even when he is obviously both offside and ‘interfering with play’ (in old parlance). Bookings for celebrating goals. (Whether going off the pitch or removing a shirt).
Handball (which is somewhat limited in description earlier) where it is based on silhouettes, natural positions and also the outcome (for attackers but not defenders).
Golden goal and silver goal were stupid. And the FA abolishing replays in the FA Cup is rubbish, the ultimate non game related rule changes is FFP which has been introduced, as with all the champions league rule changes in the last 30 years, to make football more boring.
Click to expand...
So to clarify you thought:

- offside worked best when if any player was offside, even one who was walking towards his own goalkeeper on the oppside side of the attack

- Handball worked best when if it hit the hand it's automatically a freekick / penalty, even if the defending player couldn't get their hand out of the way

Golden goal and silver goal have been abolished

Cup replays are not game rules

FFP are not game rules


How about other rules that were added?

Pass back rule?
Keeper holding it for 6 seconds?
Being able to kick the ball backward at kickoff?
Having 5 subs?
Having an additional sub for head injury?
 
Unicorse said:
So to clarify you thought:

- offside worked best when if any player was offside, even one who was walking towards his own goalkeeper on the oppside side of the attack

- Handball worked best when if it hit the hand it's automatically a freekick / penalty, even if the defending player couldn't get their hand out of the way

Golden goal and silver goal have been abolished

Cup replays are not game rules

FFP are not game rules


How about other rules that were added?

Pass back rule?
Keeper holding it for 6 seconds?
Being able to kick the ball backward at kickoff?
Having 5 subs?
Having an additional sub for head injury?
Click to expand...
The first two you have quoted there are not the rules as long as I have ever watched football.

Offside was when interfering with play and handball had to be deliberate.

Golden and Silver were abolished after introduction because they were seen to be stupid rule changes.

Pass back rule didn’t worry me before or since it was changed, keeper holding it for 6 seconds isn’t enforced, I don’t care if you have to kick it forwards backwards or whatever at a kick off, more subs certainly suits Rangers, but really just plays into helping the biggest clubs with the biggest squads, additional head injury sub is daft. You can sub a player who gets a concussion after using your allotted number up, but not a guy who breaks his leg into two pieces?
 
I haven't read the whole thread but will say this.
The whole sport is based around the offside rule.
If you remove it (or mess with it to an extent) you take away the whole entire structure of the game.
I don't know where the answers are in regards to VAR but when they speak about "clear and obvious" that's where it gets messy. The linesman makes a call on whether or not it's off and it may or may not be correct. Is it CLEAR and OBVIOUS, though? As a fan of VAR myself I hope they get this right going forward, as with that Coventry (offside) goal, it was not " clear and obvious" that the linesman had made a mistake.
I don't want to see offside goals given though, so where do you draw the line? (No pun intended).
 
Yip scrap it , scrap off side, while you are at it, I'd suggest letting the players pick up the ball and run with it. They can even throw it forward if the want. Let them punch each other as well. I miss the 1800s
 
Broom-loneranger said:
They should have a 10 second rule or something. If you look at the potential offside and still are not absolutely sure after 10 seconds, then its not offside.
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If you can’t see it’s offside with the naked eye then it’s onside or if any part of your body is inline with the last defender it’s onside this clears it up imo

As a striker his in the he’ll can you judge if your toenail is onside it’s ridiculous
 
There's nothing wrong with the offside rule as it stands and VAR works perfectly to administer it. People need to get over it.
 
Unicorse said:
Obviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game

The main reason is:

- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'

- the thickness of the lines

- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)

Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing


Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch

Another suggestion is scrap offside completely

They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties

Is it worth doing the same with offside?

staceywest.net

Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West

I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]
staceywest.net staceywest.net


Discuss
Click to expand...
If there was no offside rule, football would end up like basketball - i.e. stick the biggest man you have up front for the whole game and lump the ball up to him. I'm not saying that basketball is a game without skill, but I think football without a fairly refereed and Var system would be a huge mistake.
 
Fitba Juice said:
I haven't read the whole thread but will say this.
The whole sport is based around the offside rule.
If you remove it (or mess with it to an extent) you take away the whole entire structure of the game.
I don't know where the answers are in regards to VAR but when they speak about "clear and obvious" that's where it gets messy. The linesman makes a call on whether or not it's off and it may or may not be correct. Is it CLEAR and OBVIOUS, though? As a fan of VAR myself I hope they get this right going forward, as with that Coventry (offside) goal, it was not " clear and obvious" that the linesman had made a mistake.
I don't want to see offside goals given though, so where do you draw the line? (No pun intended).
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Grrrr.:confused:

See post #31. ‘Clear and obvious error’ has f*ck all to do with offside reviews.
 
I think changing to the 'Wenger offside rule' might make things a bit better, it would make football more attacking.
 
Only the clueless of the clueless would advocate the scrapping of the offside rule.

You'd have wee dicks like Furuhashi spending the whole game standing in the opposition penalty box.
 
The way this thread has split people should show that there is an issue with the current set up , I've agreed with one of you then someone else makes a valid point. I like VAR and I don't, don't when it goes against us, but you can say the same as the old errors and luck - sometimes it goes with you and against. We need VAR up here as we would get screwed over with out it. The offside rule is integral to football and would just be silly season without it. I'm amazed someone would even suggest removing the offside rule, to me that seems nuts, as it ruins the game.
 
All the fuss over this Coventry bollocks. If there's no VAR and its left to the Linesman then, in all likelihood, he's putting his flag up. My first instinct when watching it was offside and I was surprised it was such a close call. The Linesman would have flagged I'm sure, and then its the same outcome without the furore.

Incredible the 'noise' this has generated from the anti-VAR brigade.
 
Unicorse said:
Obviously the Man Utd v Coventry is the most recently high profile example of VAR and offside being a controversial issue in the game

The main reason is:

- the nature of 'clear and obvious error'

- the thickness of the lines

- the moment to draw the lines when the ball was struck (20millisecond difference in frames can be the difference between on and offside)

Wengers suggestion of giving advantage to the striker is interesting but just moves the 'fault line' and makes things just as confusing


Other suggestions I have read is change the rule so that it's only offside if 2 attacking players are in an 'offside' position. This happens less regularly meaning fewer goals being chalked off. It would change the way the game is played if 1 player is allowed further up the pitch

Another suggestion is scrap offside completely

They scrapped the away goals rule which has proven to increase goals in European ties

Is it worth doing the same with offside?

staceywest.net

Rethinking Football: Offside – Is It Time To Get Rid? | The Stacey West

I did a couple of articles in this series, one on discipline and another on cup competitions. Today, it’s time to look at a law [...]
staceywest.net staceywest.net


Discuss
Click to expand...
I'd love to see how completely abolishing it would work in practice but i do think the Wenger rule being implemented will make a huge difference and do away with the ridiculous 'toenail' decisions and the like.

Obviously youd still have the same marginal decisions in terms of the whole attackers body being offside but if the mentality is that offside still exists but with that attacker benefit then i think it makes a huge positive difference.

Id still be in favour of overall abolishment although there may be some crazy situations that will occur that perhaps havent been thought out yet.
 
Easy solution to the offside, if any part of the attacking players body with the exception of arm and hand are in line with defender then it is Onside..

Secondly I would add in, if any player is in an offside position when ball is played through no matter if they are interfering with play or not is offside.
 
The worst thing they ever did was stop giving the attacker the benefit of the doubt

Unsure when that happened, but the recent treatment of close calls on VAR are ridiculous. Ruined a lot of the 2022 World Cup games

Start giving the attacker the benefit (if any part of him is onside then he's onside) and the game will flourish. I believe this is roughly what Wenger is proposing.
 
Scott McRoberts said:
Easy solution to the offside, if any part of the attacking players body with the exception of arm and hand are in line with defender then it is Onside..

Secondly I would add in, if any player is in an offside position when ball is played through no matter if they are interfering with play or not is offside.
Click to expand...
So we then have VAR reviews of whether any part of the attacking players body IS in line or not or whether there is actually a 1mm gap.

Any line, any where - and there has to be a line somewhere if we retain offside - is subject to scrutiny just the same as it currently stands. Moving the line somewhere else, talk of clear daylight between players etc changes nothing. It simply shifts the focus point for the assessment of offside.
 
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