According to VAR Review Panel, we’ve had the most decisions incorrectly go against us of any club in the league

[wee bud's pit boots]

Well, it was pointed out when it was announced that VAR was coming in about our same cheating and corrupt officials being behind VAR, then nothing changes.

It's not about I told you so, it was stating the bloody obvious.

I've not read the whole thread, but are there common denominators in terms of personnel working VAR, who have cheated us?

 

[muttley]

Yes...

Given that it's gospel over the mess at Sterling's red card, I assume you're not going to argue now that it's not gospel?

The Dessers goal being ruled out, will never be ruled a mistake... because well, it isn't...

Celtc rarely, if ever, get a game changing decision against them that costs them points. You know that, as does everyone else that watches Scottish football.

 

[GreigC]

Celtc rarely, if ever, get a game changing decision against them that costs them points. You know that, as does everyone else that watches Scottish football.

The games in which we've been on the end of mistaken decisions, haven't cost us points either...

The argument could actually be, they HAVE been on the end of a game changing decision that cost them points - the Hearts game at Tynecastle

They also haven't been on the end of a mistaken decision that has gifted them points...

So not sure what your point is really... you want referees to make more mistakes and them to be on the end of them?

 

[muttley]

The games in which we've been on the end of mistaken decisions, haven't cost us points either...

The argument could actually be, they HAVE been on the end of a game changing decision that cost them points - the Hearts game at Tynecastle

They also haven't been on the end of a mistaken decision that has gifted them points...

So not sure what your point is really... you want referees to make more mistakes and them to be on the end of them?

Are you actually claiming that because we won the games when blatantly incorrect decisions given against us, they don't then matter. ? Both Killie penalties at Rugby Park and Ibrox, as example, never mind Old Firm games where we've dropped points due to incorrect decisions against us. ? This now happens every season, and costs us titles.

 

[GreigC]

Are you actually claiming that because we won the games when blatantly incorrect decisions given against us, they don't then matter. ? Both Killie penalties at Rugby Park and Ibrox, as example, never mind Old Firm games where we've dropped points due to incorrect decisions against us. ? This now happens every season, and costs us titles.

Post 105. I quite clearly state that it doesn't justify the fact they're wrong, merely that the mistakes haven't cost us points...

What incorrect decisions in Old Firm games that we've dropped points? Because the VAR review panel, don't agree with you

 

[muttley]

Post 105. I quite clearly state that it doesn't justify the fact they're wrong

What incorrect decisions in Old Firm games that we've dropped points? Because the VAR review panel, don't agree with you

You're now moving on to defend VAR when it suits Celtc, ie, the Dessers goal at Ibrox disallowed. Very strange behaviour. I'll ask you again, when do refs give big decisions against Celtc which costs them points, especially against us. ? They are bottom of the table for incorrect decisions against them for a reason. But you know that.

 

[GreigC]

You're now moving on to defend VAR when it suits Celtc, ie, the Dessers goal at Ibrox disallowed. Very strange behaviour. I'll ask you again, when do refs give big decisions against Celtc which costs them points, especially against us. ? They are bottom of the table for incorrect decisions against them for a reason. But you know that.

What are you actually on about?

You're saying the VAR mistakes have cost us points - I'm pointing out they haven't

You're saying VAR decisions in Old Firm games have been mistakenly going against us - I'm point out that according to the IRP, they aren't mistakes

You're saying they're bottom of the table for incorrect decisions against them - Ross County and Kilmarnock have had 0. Celtic Motherwell and St Johnstone are equal on 1

Kilmarnock (5), Aberdeen (4), Hearts (4) and Dundee (3) have had more wrong decisions go for them than Celtic. They've had 2, so have we, Motherwell and Ross County

This isn't stuff thats based of my opinion. This is stuff that stems from the decisions reviewed and published by the IRP

You keep going on about the Dessers goal at Ibrox. Please do, using the laws of the game and the IFAB VAR protocol, explain why it should have stood?

 

[muttley]

What are you actually on about?

You're saying the VAR mistakes have cost us points - I'm pointing out they haven't

You're saying VAR decisions in Old Firm games have been mistakenly going against us - I'm point out that according to the IRP, they aren't mistakes

You're saying they're bottom of the table for incorrect decisions against them - Ross County and Kilmarnock have had 0. Celtic Motherwell and St Johnstone are equal on 1

Kilmarnock (5), Aberdeen (4), Hearts (4) and Dundee (3) have had more wrong decisions go for them than Celtic. They've had 2, so have we, Motherwell and Ross County

This isn't stuff thats based of my opinion. This is stuff that stems from the decisions reviewed and published by the IRP

You keep going on about the Dessers goal at Ibrox. Please do, using the laws of the game and the IFAB VAR protocol, explain why it should have stood?

You'll be defending why Celtc have the least red cards and least penalties awarded against them next. I've said all I need to say. I'll let other posters make up their own minds.

 

[bkerr72]

Celtc rarely, if ever, get a game changing decision against them that costs them points. You know that, as does everyone else that watches Scottish football.

What is your definition of a game changing decision since you seem to disagree a red card and a penalty aren't?

 

[muttley]

What is your definition of a game changing decision since you seem to disagree a red card and a penalty aren't?

How about this example, when Celtc were already 0-1 down at Pittodrie and a blatant second yellow to put them down to 10 men was denied by another cowardly ref. Why did the ref refuse to award a second yellow card against Celtc. ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753779687816311135

 

[bkerr72]

How about this example, when Celtc were already 0-1 down at Pittodrie and a blatant second yellow to put them down to 10 men was denied by another cowardly ref. Why did the ref refuse to award a second yellow card against Celtc. ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753779687816311135

That's a non VAR example VAR can't get involved in 2nd yellow cards.

 

[muttley]

That's a non VAR example VAR can't get involved in 2nd yellow cards.

Its quite simple. Why did the ref refuse to award a second yellow card. ?

 

[bkerr72]

Its quite simple. Why did the ref refuse to award a second yellow card. ?

Only he can tell you why it is Steven Mclean after all.

 

[GreigC]

You'll be defending why Celtc have the least red cards and least penalties awarded against them next. I've said all I need to say. I'll let other posters make up their own minds.

How many penalties do you think they should have conceded that they haven't?

Celtic have had 2 red cards this season... Hearts (0), Hibs (1), Aberdeen (1) have had less. Kilmarnock and Livi have had 2 as well...

So again, I'm not defending anything - I'm merely pointing out that you're wrong..

 

[JC85]

The mental thing is, the vast majority of fans - just average joe bloggs punters - could see right away that those decisions were wrong. We all knew Lundstram at Kille wasn't a penalty, Sterling wasn't a red, them and Hearts penalties at Tynecastle were both wrong. We're all sitting watching and know they're wrong. So how the f*ck are two sets of qualified officials fucking up those decisions?

 

[bkerr72]

The mental thing is, the vast majority of fans - just average joe bloggs punters - could see right away that those decisions were wrong. We all knew Lundstram at Kille wasn't a penalty, Sterling wasn't a red, them and Hearts penalties at Tynecastle were both wrong. We're all sitting watching and know they're wrong. So how the f*ck are two sets of qualified officials fucking up those decisions?

Would say on the Hearts penalty if it was given against Johnston then am guessing that's where the panel are saying its wrong and I would agree with that. Iwata's is more of a handball but I'm guessing this panel get to hear the audio when they're reviewing these incidents?

 

[JC85]

Would say on the Hearts penalty if it was given against Johnston then am guessing that's where the panel are saying its wrong and I would agree with that. Iwata's is more of a handball but I'm guessing this panel get to hear the audio when they're reviewing these incidents?

It was given against Iwata I'm sure? Don't recall Johnston doing anything?

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

The games in which we've been on the end of mistaken decisions, haven't cost us points either...

The argument could actually be, they HAVE been on the end of a game changing decision that cost them points - the Hearts game at Tynecastle

They also haven't been on the end of a mistaken decision that has gifted them points...

So not sure what your point is really... you want referees to make more mistakes and them to be on the end of them?

Remind me again, what was the game changing decision at Tynecatle?

You are surely not going to tell us the kung fu incident on the touchline saw them hard done by?

If it's against them it's an automatic red card all day long and little reaction in the press.

 

[GreigC]

Remind me again, what was the game changing decision at Tynecatle?

You are surely not going to tell us the kung fu incident on the touchline saw them hard done by?

If it's against them it's an automatic red card all day long and little reaction in the press.

The penalty for handball at 0-0 just before half time...

 

[Partickger]

I wonder where the ‘tin foil hat’ posters are today?

 

[bkerr72]

It was given against Iwata I'm sure? Don't recall Johnston doing anything?

Think it was against Johnston and that's why they were going mental on the day about it.

On your point about it all as well I don't think games that are not on TV don't really help them. Some of the footage you see is awful and it gets worse when you slow it down. Maybe down to the streaming company to try make it better its not an excuse by the way for simple decisions like the Lundstram handball.

 

[JC85]

Think it was against Johnston and that's why they were going mental on the day about it.

On your point about it all as well I don't think games that are not on TV don't really help them. Some of the footage you see is awful and it gets worse when you slow it down. Maybe down to the streaming company to try make it better its not an excuse by the way for simple decisions like the Lundstram handball.

Definitely given for handball against Iwata mate. I don't think any of the wrong decisions listed there were even borderline. All blatantly wrong.

 

[Pichichi]

The games in which we've been on the end of mistaken decisions, haven't cost us points either...

The argument could actually be, they HAVE been on the end of a game changing decision that cost them points - the Hearts game at Tynecastle

They also haven't been on the end of a mistaken decision that has gifted them points...

So not sure what your point is really... you want referees to make more mistakes and them to be on the end of them?

At 0-0 Celtic had already been awarded a penalty that the panel agreed was the wrong decision. I don't think your argument stacks up.

 

[GreigC]

At 0-0 Celtic had already been awarded a penalty that the panel agreed was the wrong decision. I don't think your argument stacks up.

And if they score the penalty, and go on to win the game - then you can argue they've been on the receiving end of a match changing decision that gifts them points...

They didn't

They correctly were reduced to 10 men

They would have held out to halftime at 0-0 with 10 men if it hadn't been for an incorrectly awarded penalty

They didn't recover from that and lost 2-0. That's a game changing decision, that was wrong, that you can easily argue costs them points

The games where decisions went against us - only Rugby Park did it put us 1-0 down. We recovered well, won 2-1, and should have had another penalty.

Every other mistake we were already winning the games - the impact is, like it or not, lessened

3-1 up against Dundee (a mistake helped us out there)
2-0 up against Kilmarnock
2-1 Up against Aberdeen

See what I'm saying?

 

[bkerr72]

Definitely given for handball against Iwata mate. I don't think any of the wrong decisions listed there were even borderline. All blatantly wrong.

Yeah would agree on that although said it a few times in the thread the Bolton one although probably isn't a straight red it's definitely a booking so he would have been off anyway.

 

[SSR]

Well, I'd argue that the penalty that went against them at Tynecastle, just before half time at 0-0, in a game they went on to lose 2-0 would probably qualify

It's funny, the Kilmarnock one we still came back from and won the game. That's probably the most "impactful" in terms of the game situation

The Sterling red card a close 2nd as it's only 2-1 at the time and puts us under the cosh for 8 minutes of injury time. But again, we manage to see the game out

The one at Parkhead comes with an asterix, because if things had been done properly we'd still not have received the penalty I suspect. Right conclusion, wrong process is probably the fair description

So that leaves us with Cifuentes against Dundee, which whilst inconvenient wasn't a massive issue at the time, and the Kilmarnock penalty against Souttar at Ibrox.

So 4 of the 5 mistakes we've been on the hard done by end of, are in games that we've ultimately won anyway (not that it justifies them, it just suggests that the "cheating" isn't very good)

But then, I see we're doing that FF thing... we take the IRP as gospel for the Sterling red card against Aberdeen, whilst still arguing that Roofe's goal in the September Old Firm should have stood despite the fact that the IRP didn't deem that an incorrect decision...

All in all, it just goes to show the narrative on here that Celtic are on the receiving end of the benefit of VAR is pretty far from the truth. It gives an element of credence to the concerns that we seem to be disproportionately on the wrong end of decisions - but strangely only in games we win

Going with the thread title was the penalty against Hearts the wrong decision?
Referee's in Scotland have been pretty consistent in giving handball in this type of situation.
Unlike the penalty they got in the same game that most of sound mind would agree was not a penalty.
I could have put it better but. When was the last time an incorrect game changing decision went against them ?

As I said marking their own homework and being subjective with what they highlight.

 

[GreigC]

Going with the thread title was the penalty against Hearts the wrong decision?
Referee's in Scotland have been pretty consistent in giving handball in this type of situation.
Unlike the penalty they got in the same game that most of sound mind would agree was not a penalty.
I could have put it better but. When was the last time an incorrect game changing decision went against them ?

As I said marking their own homework and being subjective with what they highlight.

Well, according to the VAR Panel that the thread title refers to... yes

So to answer your question. That game...

 

[SSR]

Well, according to the VAR Panel that the thread title refers to... yes

So to answer your question. That game...

So you don't think the handball was a penalty?
Do you think the penalty awarded to C****c was a penalty?

Just asking for your opinion not VAR ?

 

[GreigC]

So you don't think the handball was a penalty?
Do you think the penalty awarded to C****c was a penalty?

Just asking for your opinion not VAR ?

No I don't think either were penalties

Although, not sure why my opinion matters in a thread about what the VAR panel have determined...

 

[RWL12]

So wait let’s take a step back and think about this.

The narrative in Scottish football currently or at least when there was a genuine title race with us in front - was them (celtic) using ex pros, paid for shills and useful stooges to push the ‘let’s drop VAR’ narrative. In my opinion it’s because we’ve had a fairer shake of the stick but based on this we are still being shafted.

Which begs the question. How bad were Rangers being treated pre VaR?!

"League Cup Final 3 Celtc players offside at their goal" bad

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

No I don't think either were penalties

Although, not sure why my opinion matters in a thread about what the VAR panel have determined...

On a thread based on the fact that the VAR review panel have admitted that Rangers have been on the receiving end of more VAR mistakes than any other club? The fact you seem to be more interested in sticking up for the filth is mind boggling.

Don't bother replying, I've read enough from you.

 

[GreigC]

On a thread based on the fact that the VAR review panel have admitted that Rangers have been on the receiving end of more VAR mistakes than any other club? The fact you seem to be more interested in sticking up for the filth is mind boggling.

Don't bother replying, I've read enough from you.

Merely pointing out that the argument that we're cheated by the refs doesn't stack up. Regardless of the fact we're on the receiving end of more VAR mistakes...

If it did, why do our mistakes occur in games that we win? In 3 of the 4, we're already winning when they occur. In 1 of them, a VAR mistake has allowed us to score the goal that puts us 2-1 up

If the Refs are all cheats, and VAR only benefits Celtic, then why is it solidly arguable that a VAR mistake has cost them points

Neither team has been gifted points by VAR mistakes. So they're hardly benefitting disproportionately from it

As I said in a thread yesterday - the panels results surely put to bed that they're on the receiving end of more benefit out it. It allows a semblance of the argument to the fact we get a raw deal - but if the refs were cheats, to only give us a raw deal when we're winning seems a little pointless to me

Folk argue that incorrect match changing decisions don't go against Celtic... the evidence suggests that they don't go for them either.

Whilst the incorrect decisions that go either for or against us, the evidence suggests, simply aren't as impactful to the result as folk would have you believe...

There's no pattern of refs or VARs that disproportionately get things wrong for/against us, it just boils back to what I say regularly. There's no conspiracy, they just ain't very good

 

[Ruben Sosa]

So the one apparently wrong decision that has went against the rats all season, was when their player clearly played the ball with an outstretched arm?

Sounds about right.

 

[Mr Wilton]

Pattern of assistance and pattern of intimidation for and by one club!

 

[Only God Forgives]

Probably the Var decision to disallow Roofes goal in the first OF game was the worst decision this season, will always play on my my mind, Maed'a assault in their box on Cantwell's was'nt looked at proves Don Robertson's a cheating prik aswell.

 

[SSR]

Probably the Var decision to disallow Roofes goal in the first OF game was the worst decision this season, will always play on my my mind, Maed'a assault in their box on Cantwell's was'nt looked at proves Don Robertson's a cheating prik aswell.

As I've said they are being subjective in what they highlight and get involved in.
My overall opinion is if Scottish referees are not corrupt they are compromised!!

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

As I've said they are being subjective in what they highlight and get involved in.
My overall opinion is if Scottish referees are not corrupt they are compromised!!

There's no way the Clancys, Walshs, Robertsons etc are compromised.

 

[Purplestar]

Would be interesting to see how many times the same name or names come up as being the ones making the mistakes from the VAR decisions.

 

[Avalonpark]

Club should be highlighting this. The scum have one incident and the media turned it into a huge talking point, Brenda called out a ref and received a paltry one game touchline ban.
The dignified silence has never worked.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Would be interesting to see how many times the same name or names come up as being the ones making the mistakes from the VAR decisions.

Yup. Basically, asked the same question earlier in the thread.

 

[SSR]

There's no way the Clancys, Walshs, Robertsons etc are compromised.

There are two options quess which one I think they are in..

 

[muttley]

Club should be highlighting this. The scum have one incident and the media turned it into a huge talking point, Brenda called out a ref and received a paltry one game touchline ban.
The dignified silence has never worked.

We highlight the ref and VAR corruption and we're then accused of " putting refs lives at risk", apparently.

 

[Kirbys House]

Merely pointing out that the argument that we're cheated by the refs doesn't stack up. Regardless of the fact we're on the receiving end of more VAR mistakes...

If it did, why do our mistakes occur in games that we win? In 3 of the 4, we're already winning when they occur. In 1 of them, a VAR mistake has allowed us to score the goal that puts us 2-1 up

If the Refs are all cheats, and VAR only benefits Celtic, then why is it solidly arguable that a VAR mistake has cost them points

Neither team has been gifted points by VAR mistakes. So they're hardly benefitting disproportionately from it

As I said in a thread yesterday - the panels results surely put to bed that they're on the receiving end of more benefit out it. It allows a semblance of the argument to the fact we get a raw deal - but if the refs were cheats, to only give us a raw deal when we're winning seems a little pointless to me

Folk argue that incorrect match changing decisions don't go against Celtic... the evidence suggests that they don't go for them either.

Whilst the incorrect decisions that go either for or against us, the evidence suggests, simply aren't as impactful to the result as folk would have you believe...

There's no pattern of refs or VARs that disproportionately get things wrong for/against us, it just boils back to what I say regularly. There's no conspiracy, they just ain't very good

Half-decent eyesight would tell you that we are.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

We highlight the ref and VAR corruption and we're then accused of " putting refs lives at risk", apparently.

Strange how there was no follow up to Rangers fans supposedly issuing death threats to Clancy after Morelos' disallowed goal at the cesspit last season?

Also, I found it extraordinary, that given what the filth have been allowed to get away with regards to referees, the authorities would make this part of their official reply to Rangers complaint about the goal.

Sums up what we're up against.

 

[muttley]

Strange how there was no follow up to Rangers fans supposedly issuing death threats to Clancy after Morelos' disallowed goal at the cesspit last season?

Also, I found it extraordinary, that given what the filth have been allowed to get away with regards to referees, the authorities would make this part of their official reply to Rangers complaint about the goal.

Sums up what we're up against.

Its so predictable,mate. We are told to basically shut up after being cheated again for the umpteenth time against that lot.

 

[Raymond]

Merely pointing out that the argument that we're cheated by the refs doesn't stack up. Regardless of the fact we're on the receiving end of more VAR mistakes...

If it did, why do our mistakes occur in games that we win? In 3 of the 4, we're already winning when they occur. In 1 of them, a VAR mistake has allowed us to score the goal that puts us 2-1 up

If the Refs are all cheats, and VAR only benefits Celtic, then why is it solidly arguable that a VAR mistake has cost them points

Neither team has been gifted points by VAR mistakes. So they're hardly benefitting disproportionately from it

As I said in a thread yesterday - the panels results surely put to bed that they're on the receiving end of more benefit out it. It allows a semblance of the argument to the fact we get a raw deal - but if the refs were cheats, to only give us a raw deal when we're winning seems a little pointless to me

Folk argue that incorrect match changing decisions don't go against Celtic... the evidence suggests that they don't go for them either.

Whilst the incorrect decisions that go either for or against us, the evidence suggests, simply aren't as impactful to the result as folk would have you believe...

There's no pattern of refs or VARs that disproportionately get things wrong for/against us, it just boils back to what I say regularly. There's no conspiracy, they just ain't very good

Post 105. I quite clearly state that it doesn't justify the fact they're wrong, merely that the mistakes haven't cost us points...

What incorrect decisions in Old Firm games that we've dropped points? Because the VAR review panel, don't agree with you

How can you categorically state that the incorrect decisions on the Roof e goal( Dessers non foul) first old firm game , the non penalty award ( 2nd old firm game) and the decision to pull back play 70 yards ( third old firm game) did not costs us points. You Sir are incredibly naive.

 

[GreigC]

How can you categorically state that the incorrect decisions on the Roof e goal( Dessers non foul) first old firm game , the non penalty award ( 2nd old firm game) and the decision to pull back play 70 yards ( third old firm game) did not costs us points. You Sir are incredibly naive.

Well for a start, the VAR panel that we're talking about have determined that

a) the Roofe goal wasn't incorrect
b) the non-penalty award whilst incorrect, still wouldn't have seen a penalty awarded
c) Also wasn't incorrect

So, its not me categorically stating anything... its the VAR Independent Review Panel

Would be interesting to see how many times the same name or names come up as being the ones making the mistakes from the VAR decisions.

I dug the answers out with relation to the 7 errors that have been attributed to our games

In the games mistakes went against is, it was:
Clancy and Kirkland
Robertson and Aitken
Walsh and Collum
Dickinson and Dallas
Beaton and Dallas

In the mistakes that went for us, it was:
Clancy and Kirkland (same game)
McLean and Kirkland

In all of those, Aitken is entirely blameless as he recommended a review that Robertson ignored

I can't really be bothered breaking down the other 17 decisions, we know it was Robertson and Beaton for the 2 in the game at Tynecastle

 

[Arminius]

In most cases I don’t put it down to religion (Robertson and Walsh were reasonably OK when they began) but due to pressure. Clancy and Collum, though?

As Beaton has found out, any decision seen to hinder Celtic creates a furious backlash. The reverse simply doesn't happen.

I take the general point, but will simply say that my experience is that religion and being a yahoo supporter are intrinsically linked.

However, I’ll concede that being a yahoo supporter is the main problem with our supposed impartial refereeing community at present.

 

[Angrybluebear]

Yes...

Given that it's gospel over the mess at Sterling's red card, I assume you're not going to argue now that it's not gospel?

The Dessers goal being ruled out, will never be ruled a mistake... because well, it isn't...

It’s certainly subjective This was Dermot Gallagher on Sky Ref Watch view

Gallagher felt Beaton was correct to award a penalty for the foul on Silva, as well as not awarding Johnston a second yellow, but he questioned if Cyriel Dessers’ goal should have been ruled out “There’s a lot of time to reset but the referee decides it’s a foul,” he said. “There’s no doubt it’s a foul, but is it part of the attacking phase? “Beaton’s sent to the screen for the third time. The question then is if it’s re-refereeing?”

Beaton let play continue because he didn’t think it was a foul, not every foul gets corrected by VAR, Referees certainly don’t give us a controversial decision, how far back would they have went had it bounced about the box another 15 seconds.

 

[GreigC]

It’s certainly subjective This was Dermot Gallagher on Sky Ref Watch view

Gallagher felt Beaton was correct to award a penalty for the foul on Silva, as well as not awarding Johnston a second yellow, but he questioned if Cyriel Dessers’ goal should have been ruled out “There’s a lot of time to reset but the referee decides it’s a foul,” he said. “There’s no doubt it’s a foul, but is it part of the attacking phase? “Beaton’s sent to the screen for the third time. The question then is if it’s re-refereeing?”

Beaton let play continue because he didn’t think it was a foul, not every foul gets corrected by VAR, Referees certainly don’t give us a controversial decision, how far back would they have went had it bounced about the box another 15 seconds.

The problem is, as I said at the time, it'd stand in England

The PGMOL have a different interpretation to the vast majority with regards to APP and reset of play

It'd have been ruled out in Europe I suspect, as they use the IFAB definition, which is what Scotland appear to use

Therefore matters get confused, because Sky sometimes seem to think that football starts and ends in England

But as the VAR protocol is, and as much as I disagree and think it should be a new APP, it just isn't - and it was correctly ruled out