Cesar Luis Menotti has died.

Bigeye

Bigeye

Well-Known Member
Argentina's World Cup-winning coach Cesar Luis Menotti has died aged 85.

Menotti led his country to victory on home soil in the 1978 tournament, beating the Netherlands 3-1 after extra time thanks to two goals from player of the tournament Mario Kempes.

"The Argentine Football Association regrets to report with great sadness the death of Cesar Luis Menotti, former world champion coach of Argentina," said the AFA in a statement.

As a player, Menotti, a striker, played alongside Pele for Brazilian side Santos and won 11 international caps.

He then embarked on a coaching career which lasted 37 years including winning two trophies in a two-season spell with Barcelona and spells in Italy, Mexico, Uruguay and Argentina.

He took over the Argentina role in 1974 but there was controversy around the 1978 win after he opted not to include a 17-year-old Diego Maradona in the squad despite giving him his international debut the previous year.

But the following year, with Maradona in the squad, Menotti led Argentina to the Under-20 World Cup, beating the Soviet Union 3-1 in the final.

His reign ended after the 1982 World Cup in Spain where Argentina were eliminated by Brazil 3-1 in the second round with Maradona sent off.
 
A sad loss I'm sure his Argentina side in 78 WC always took short corners never gambled on the long ball.
 
The first ever footballing memories that I can put in time and place were from the 78 World Cup. There are too many to mention but they include the explosions of ticker tape, Mario Kempes and Argentina's chain smoking manager. He left a huge imprint on how I see football.

Couple of articles about Menotti. One looking at the contrast between himself and Bilardo - Menottismo v Bilardismo. And another looking at his time at Huracan:

www.sombrero.gr

The football theory of the two opposites - el sombrero

No matter how systems change and football evolves, we often return to its primal questions. Spectacle or outcome? Victory or good football? If the eternal battle between good and evil, spirit and matter, light and darkness could be transposed onto football, then the main role in football’s…...
www.sombrero.gr www.sombrero.gr

thesefootballtimes.co

The fury of César Luis Menotti's Huracán, the team that made Argentine football beautiful again

The final whistle blew after an exhilarating 120 minutes in the Argentine capital, ecstatic roars escaping from El Monumental’s roofless bowl into the
thesefootballtimes.co thesefootballtimes.co

GM1ofJMWQAAwTgg
 
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Menotti built a good squad to win that World Cup in 1978, including - Mario Kempes, Luque, Tarantini and Captain Daniel Passarella. The Dutch Team were tagged 'The Best Team to Never Win the World Cup' after losing their 2nd Final in a row to the hosts. The Dutch had a great team as well including - Ruud Krol, Johan Neeskens, Rensenbrink, Johnny Rep. Johan Cruyff was due to go, but fell-out with Team Boss, Ernst Happel just before the tournament started. Yep, the Argentinian Team were worthy winners.
 
Blue Jay said:
Menotti built a good squad to win that World Cup in 1978, including - Mario Kempes, Luque, Tarantini and Captain Daniel Passarella. The Dutch Team were tagged 'The Best Team to Never Win the World Cup' after losing their 2nd Final in a row to the hosts. The Dutch had a great team as well including - Ruud Krol, Johan Neeskens, Rensenbrink, Johnny Rep. Johan Cruyff was due to go, but fell-out with Team Boss, Ernst Happel just before the tournament started. Yep, the Argentinian Team were worthy winners.
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Was there not a bit of bribery going on ? Argentina had to win by 5 goals in the QF's and beat Bolivia 6-0 or was it Peru ?
 
Thought he’d died years ago. Surprised he got to that age as he was a heavy chain smoker. Superb manager though.
 
Bigeye said:
Was there not a bit of bribery going on ? Argentina had to win by 5 goals in the QF's and beat Bolivia 6-0 or was it Peru ?
Click to expand...

Certainly was Argentina had to win by 4 clear goals and the Peruvian goalkeeper Quiroga was born in Argentina
 
Blue Jay said:
Menotti built a good squad to win that World Cup in 1978, including - Mario Kempes, Luque, Tarantini and Captain Daniel Passarella. The Dutch Team were tagged 'The Best Team to Never Win the World Cup' after losing their 2nd Final in a row to the hosts. The Dutch had a great team as well including - Ruud Krol, Johan Neeskens, Rensenbrink, Johnny Rep. Johan Cruyff was due to go, but fell-out with Team Boss, Ernst Happel just before the tournament started. Yep, the Argentinian Team were worthy winners.
Click to expand...
With Cruyff in the side, would they have won it?
 
drgriffen said:
The first ever footballing memories that I can put in time and place were from the 78 World Cup. There are too many to mention but they include the explosions of ticker tape, Mario Kempes and Argentina's chain smoking manager. He left a huge imprint on how I see football.

Couple of articles about Menotti. One looking at the contrast between himself and Bilardo - Menottismo v Bilardismo. And another looking at his time at Huracan:

www.sombrero.gr

The football theory of the two opposites - el sombrero

No matter how systems change and football evolves, we often return to its primal questions. Spectacle or outcome? Victory or good football? If the eternal battle between good and evil, spirit and matter, light and darkness could be transposed onto football, then the main role in football’s…...
www.sombrero.gr www.sombrero.gr

thesefootballtimes.co

The fury of César Luis Menotti's Huracán, the team that made Argentine football beautiful again

The final whistle blew after an exhilarating 120 minutes in the Argentine capital, ecstatic roars escaping from El Monumental’s roofless bowl into the
thesefootballtimes.co thesefootballtimes.co

GM1ofJMWQAAwTgg
Click to expand...
Very similar to myself in regards football memories and huge part of the reason for our bucket list trip to Buenos Aires last November. You recommended a book to me 2/3 years back called Angels With Dirty Faces about Argentine football. The section about 78WC and Menotti was fascinating (the whole book is a great read tbf). The politics around it and Menotti not bending to the Junta just made him even bigger in my eyes.
Sad news of his passing ….. Rest easy Sir.
 
Blue Jay said:
Menotti built a good squad to win that World Cup in 1978, including - Mario Kempes, Luque, Tarantini and Captain Daniel Passarella. The Dutch Team were tagged 'The Best Team to Never Win the World Cup' after losing their 2nd Final in a row to the hosts. The Dutch had a great team as well including - Ruud Krol, Johan Neeskens, Rensenbrink, Johnny Rep. Johan Cruyff was due to go, but fell-out with Team Boss, Ernst Happel just before the tournament started. Yep, the Argentinian Team were worthy winners.
Click to expand...
Cryuff didn't go as prior to it there was an attempted kidnap on his family and he decided to stay at home.
I often wonder how it would have went if he had gone.
 
One of my first games over here was the short-lived liga cup final (first leg I think) between Madrid and Barcelona. It was a bit surreal watching him and Di Stefano go against each other on the sidelines. The football that day was like a completely new sport to me. I can still remember the accusations that he only got the Barca job because of Maradona but it's safe to say he done a decent job. Rest easy big man
 
Blue Jay said:
Menotti built a good squad to win that World Cup in 1978, including - Mario Kempes, Luque, Tarantini and Captain Daniel Passarella. The Dutch Team were tagged 'The Best Team to Never Win the World Cup' after losing their 2nd Final in a row to the hosts. The Dutch had a great team as well including - Ruud Krol, Johan Neeskens, Rensenbrink, Johnny Rep. Johan Cruyff was due to go, but fell-out with Team Boss, Ernst Happel just before the tournament started. Yep, the Argentinian Team were worthy winners.
Click to expand...
I thought Cruyff himself said many years later that the real reason he didn’t go was because his family had been subject to a kidnap attempt in Spain and he was reluctant to leave them alone for a month?
 
Bigeye said:
Was there not a bit of bribery going on ? Argentina had to win by 5 goals in the QF's and beat Bolivia 6-0 or was it Peru ?
Click to expand...
The 6-0 defeat of Peru was clearly fixed, but the Argentine side were worthy winners, IMO.

And they did it all while leaving out an 18 year-old Diego Armando Maradona.
 
Calderwoodloyal said:
Very similar to myself in regards football memories and huge part of the reason for our bucket list trip to Buenos Aires last November. You recommended a book to me 2/3 years back called Angels With Dirty Faces about Argentine football. The section about 78WC and Menotti was fascinating (the whole book is a great read tbf). The politics around it and Menotti not bending to the Junta just made him even bigger in my eyes.
Sad news of his passing ….. Rest easy Sir.
Click to expand...

AWDF is a brilliant book.

This book about 78 might be of interest:

 
JerseyLoyalist said:
I’m sure he scored that night.
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We drew the first leg 1-1 in Spain Tommy McLean scored from about 30 yards out for Rangers.
We fancied ourselves strongly in the return at Ibrox but Valencia gave us a lesson.
Sitting in the Centenary stand my abiding memory was Kempes waltzing through our defence and lashing the ball into our net.
 
Bouncy said:
A brilliant world Cup, and Argentina were superb to watch

Mario Kempes played at Ibrox in a European tie not long after I'm sure (Valencia?)
Click to expand...

Argentina in 78 were dirty, cheatings b@stards.

The stunt they were trying to pull at the start of the final, taking offense to one of the Vanderkerkoff twin's arm being in a plaster, when it had been okayed for the semi final, summed them up. Passarella leading the complaits, no doubt on orders from Menotti.

I think Rob Resenbrink missed a great chance at the end of the ninety minutes. Oh, how I wish that had went in.
 
Pennine Walk said:
We drew the first leg 1-1 in Spain Tommy McLean scored from about 30 yards out for Rangers.
We fancied ourselves strongly in the return at Ibrox but Valencia gave us a lesson.
Sitting in the Centenary stand my abiding memory was Kempes waltzing through our defence and lashing the ball into our net.
Click to expand...

Bonhoff's free kicks as well. He was taking pot shots from just inside the half way line. Or that's what it seemed like from my view in the east enclosure on the night.
 
It's in one of the books about Maradona that when Menotti went to Barca he changed the training schedule from morning to afternoon and told the club's directors it was all about "syncing up the biorhythms of the squad to matchday" when in reality it was because him and Maradona were supposedly out to all hours of the night partying and shagging the local women and wanted a lie in :D
 
Bigeye said:
Was there not a bit of bribery going on ? Argentina had to win by 5 goals in the QF's and beat Bolivia 6-0 or was it Peru ?
Click to expand...

cskasofia said:
With Cruyff in the side, would they have won it?
Click to expand...

Tommy48 said:
Cryuff didn't go as prior to it there was an attempted kidnap on his family and he decided to stay at home.
I often wonder how it would have went if he had gone.
Click to expand...

HandsomeHead said:
I thought Cruyff himself said many years later that the real reason he didn’t go was because his family had been subject to a kidnap attempt in Spain and he was reluctant to leave them alone for a month?
Click to expand...


I remember hearing about the bribery issues and to be honest it wouldn't have surprised me if some well padded brown envelopes exchanged hands, let's be honest the World Cup appears to more corrupt than the Sopranos from top to bottom, as recent situations proved.

If Cruyff had played in that tournament it definitely would've made a huge difference to Holland's chances, who knows whether they would've won, but it would've been a different final. Argentina were a good team and still might have won, it's up there with who would've won between the Brazil 1970 World Cup Winning Team and Pep Guardiola's Great Barcelona Team.

Cheers for that one about Cruyff's attempted kidnapping guys, I never knew about that. Talk at the time was all about the usual fall-outs and arguments within the Dutch squad, which often impacted on their squads before tournaments, but I can fully understand why the real reason was kept quiet at the time. What a horrendous situation for the guy and his family to go through and who could blame him for not going.
 
drgriffen said:
The first ever footballing memories that I can put in time and place were from the 78 World Cup. There are too many to mention but they include the explosions of ticker tape, Mario Kempes and Argentina's chain smoking manager. He left a huge imprint on how I see football.

Couple of articles about Menotti. One looking at the contrast between himself and Bilardo - Menottismo v Bilardismo. And another looking at his time at Huracan:

www.sombrero.gr

The football theory of the two opposites - el sombrero

No matter how systems change and football evolves, we often return to its primal questions. Spectacle or outcome? Victory or good football? If the eternal battle between good and evil, spirit and matter, light and darkness could be transposed onto football, then the main role in football’s…...
www.sombrero.gr www.sombrero.gr

thesefootballtimes.co

The fury of César Luis Menotti's Huracán, the team that made Argentine football beautiful again

The final whistle blew after an exhilarating 120 minutes in the Argentine capital, ecstatic roars escaping from El Monumental’s roofless bowl into the
thesefootballtimes.co thesefootballtimes.co

GM1ofJMWQAAwTgg
Click to expand...
Heard the news and thought of you mate.

I was mesmerised by the ticker tape in 78 too.

I always loved the story of Barca training in the afternoon ostensibly to observe the rhythm of match day but in reality to allow Menotti to recover from the delights of the local nightlife.
 
Blue Jay said:
If Cruyff had played in that tournament it definitely would've made a huge difference to Holland's chances, who knows whether they would've won, but it would've been a different final. Argentina were a good team and still might have won, it's up there with who would've won between the Brazil 1970 World Cup Winning Team and Pep Guardiola's Great Barcelona Team.
Click to expand...
Even though he would have been 31 in the finals - much older then in terms of a player’s career then than it is now - he was still arguably the best player in the world (the likes of Maradona, Zico, Platini, Rumminegge, etc were still really emerging talents).

They won their qualifying group undefeated and pissed all over England in a Wembley friendly the year before the finals when Cruyff totally ran the show so it’s difficult to think they wouldn’t have been improved with him in the team, and given how narrowly they lost to the Argies, he would quite possibly have been the difference.
 
drgriffen said:
The first ever footballing memories that I can put in time and place were from the 78 World Cup. There are too many to mention but they include the explosions of ticker tape, Mario Kempes and Argentina's chain smoking manager. He left a huge imprint on how I see football.

Couple of articles about Menotti. One looking at the contrast between himself and Bilardo - Menottismo v Bilardismo. And another looking at his time at Huracan:

www.sombrero.gr

The football theory of the two opposites - el sombrero

No matter how systems change and football evolves, we often return to its primal questions. Spectacle or outcome? Victory or good football? If the eternal battle between good and evil, spirit and matter, light and darkness could be transposed onto football, then the main role in football’s…...
www.sombrero.gr www.sombrero.gr
Click to expand...

At times I feel Bilardo is a little hard done by in those analyses. As a generalisation, it's indicative of their social positions - one with the opportunity to dream, the other from the poorer background knowing he had to succeed by any means.

Did Menotti ever comment on the Hand of God?

That's a great article. We don't seem to talk of British managers in that way. Is that because there is lack of innovation from the UK or that we perceive football in a different manner?

We'd never talk of 'Fergusonismo' and his philosophy.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
At times I feel Bilardo is a little hard done by in those analyses. As a generalisation, it's indicative of their social positions - one with the opportunity to dream, the other from the poorer background knowing he had to succeed by any means.

Did Menotti ever comment on the Hand of God?

That's a great article. We don't seem to talk of British managers in that way. Is that because there is lack of innovation from the UK or that we perceive football in a different manner?

We'd never talk of 'Fergusonismo' and his philosophy.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. I think a lot of the time this is a (self) projection of what we want to believe to be true rather than a proper reflection of the reality.

You see that here with us and them and I've no doubt in other countries, as well.

I don't know.

In the UK I think there is mistrust of the intellectual. So when you start talking about philosophies it is seen as aloof and foreign.
 
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