Do we grossly overhype & over-value our players based upon very little?

C

Candyass

Well-Known Member
....and no, I'm not blaming us for the downturn in form, but there has been several threads bumped over the last 5 days that clearly indicate as fans that both the superlatives & valuations we place on our players are miles and miles off it.

- Pre season, there was a litany of fan media accounts and fans here & on X telling us to "enjoy Nico Raskin while he is here" because seemingly his comment about wanting to play for Chelsea was going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Look at him now? You'd bite the hand off for just shy of what we paid for him

- Fabio Silva was "Gabriel Amato with pace"

- Renewing John Lundstram's contract was a "no-brainer" based on a couple of months of looking close to worth the £30k a week he's stolen from us for years.

- Jack Butland, came here on reduced wages and likely a pre agreed fee should he want to move back home, but as usual, it's "£20m n no a penny less111!" - he has literally sacrificed millions of pounds to come here, the notion we would get that feeling for a guy who we got for free under those circumstances, given he could easily want back down south at some point for personal reasons, was nuts.

Again, the reason I'm saying this is not to blame us at all for the team's form, but can we finally agree that delivering league titles and performing well for an entire season at the very least should be realised before we start deluding ourselves & setting ourselves up for disappointment?

I get why it happens, we've been desperate for heroes for years and any time it looks like one steps forward, we get excited.

Personally speaking, I think we need to stop creating career paths for players where we prophesies over transfer fees and which club will pick up our players when they've only been playing well for a couple of months.

Since 2018, our valuations as fans on everyone bar Bassey and maybe Patterson have been wild.

Tin Hat on - I just think this kind of thing can go to the head of the modern footballer.
 
Of course we do but every fan does likewise. Man Utd fans were suggesting Rashford was the best LWF in the world not so long ago. Declan Rice was going to single handily win Arsenal the premier league etc etc etc.
 
We swing from that to crucifying everyone and anything to do with the club. Ibrox can be the best place in the world when it's going good but it's one of the worst places for a Rangers player to play when it's not.

Rightly or wrongly. I'm not criticising anyone for that. But there is this huge swing that happens all the time.
 
We do but so does every set of fans.
Reluctantly bringing the dark side into play but remember Scott Sinclair's first season here and the hordes were clamouring for England call up.
Going back over the years, Boumsong bombed big time when he went to Newcastle and more recently, Bassey bumped by Ajax. Patterson hardly gets a game for Everton and Aribo isn't a regular in a championship side. To sum it up, the quality of Scottish football is basically guff in comparison to the big leagues.
 
A good badge thumping and we wet our panties.

And if they can make a good social media post...well :rolleyes:
 
Candyass said:
....and no, I'm not blaming us for the downturn in form, but there has been several threads bumped over the last 5 days that clearly indicate as fans that both the superlatives & valuations we place on our players are miles and miles off it.

- Pre season, there was a litany of fan media accounts and fans here & on X telling us to "enjoy Nico Raskin while he is here" because seemingly his comment about wanting to play for Chelsea was going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Look at him now? You'd bite the hand off for just shy of what we paid for him

- Fabio Silva was "Gabriel Amato with pace"

- Renewing John Lundstram's contract was a "no-brainer" based on a couple of months of looking close to worth the £30k a week he's stolen from us for years.

- Jack Butland, came here on reduced wages and likely a pre agreed fee should he want to move back home, but as usual, it's "£20m n no a penny less111!" - he has literally sacrificed millions of pounds to come here, the notion we would get that feeling for a guy who we got for free under those circumstances, given he could easily want back down south at some point for personal reasons, was nuts.

Again, the reason I'm saying this is not to blame us at all for the team's form, but can we finally agree that delivering league titles and performing well for an entire season at the very least should be realised before we start deluding ourselves & setting ourselves up for disappointment?

I get why it happens, we've been desperate for heroes for years and any time it looks like one steps forward, we get excited.

Personally speaking, I think we need to stop creating career paths for players where we prophesies over transfer fees and which club will pick up our players when they've only been playing well for a couple of months.

Since 2018, our valuations as fans on everyone bar Bassey and maybe Patterson have been wild.

Tin Hat on - I just think this kind of thing can go to the head of the modern footballer.
Click to expand...
I think the answer is both we overhype when things are going smoothly and we manage to put some victories together.
Similarly in this mini slump everyone and everything is wrong and we need to get rid of it all.

Basically normal football fans.
 
Candyass said:
....and no, I'm not blaming us for the downturn in form, but there has been several threads bumped over the last 5 days that clearly indicate as fans that both the superlatives & valuations we place on our players are miles and miles off it.

- Pre season, there was a litany of fan media accounts and fans here & on X telling us to "enjoy Nico Raskin while he is here" because seemingly his comment about wanting to play for Chelsea was going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Look at him now? You'd bite the hand off for just shy of what we paid for him

- Fabio Silva was "Gabriel Amato with pace"

- Renewing John Lundstram's contract was a "no-brainer" based on a couple of months of looking close to worth the £30k a week he's stolen from us for years.

- Jack Butland, came here on reduced wages and likely a pre agreed fee should he want to move back home, but as usual, it's "£20m n no a penny less111!" - he has literally sacrificed millions of pounds to come here, the notion we would get that feeling for a guy who we got for free under those circumstances, given he could easily want back down south at some point for personal reasons, was nuts.

Again, the reason I'm saying this is not to blame us at all for the team's form, but can we finally agree that delivering league titles and performing well for an entire season at the very least should be realised before we start deluding ourselves & setting ourselves up for disappointment?

I get why it happens, we've been desperate for heroes for years and any time it looks like one steps forward, we get excited.

Personally speaking, I think we need to stop creating career paths for players where we prophesies over transfer fees and which club will pick up our players when they've only been playing well for a couple of months.

Since 2018, our valuations as fans on everyone bar Bassey and maybe Patterson have been wild.

Tin Hat on - I just think this kind of thing can go to the head of the modern footballer.
Click to expand...
100% some of the wild takes on average players doesn't help.
 
100000000% the players we signed are grossly overrated by many on here. Setting them up for the inevitable battering on this same forum when a couple of months into their careers here they inevitably fall below expectations that were never attainable in the first place.
 
Massively I am sorry to say, our fans are as bad at judging players as the recruitment team that brought them here.
 
Absolutely, especially on here.

For two years the club have spent relative fortunes to stand still and in most positions in the squad, actually regress.

What grounds do we have for thinking that summer 24 will be an outlier in a positive sense?

I'm struggling to think of any.
 
It’s very difficult to pick a consistent player of quality from the whole squad,Now and again an individual player can do something exciting and skillful but non of them seem to be able to maintain any kind of form.
 
Thought this about the goalie all season , steady and usually does the basics well , never makes a breathtaking save that looked a certain goal , everybody thinks he’s brilliant , all down to opinions though
 
Yes I think we have lost sight of what a genuinely good/great player brings - consistency.

Players we have at the moment can produce on occasion and for spells but the best players aren’t better because of pure ability they are better because they can perform at a high level more often.

Give me a hundred chances from 18 yards against a pro goalie I’ll maybe score one belter. Doesn’t mean I can play though.
 
Sadly yes, and i am include myself in being guilty of that.
i have fallen for it before with this squad and so many of them need rid.
 
WinkieWATP said:
Of course we do but every fan does likewise. Man Utd fans were suggesting Rashford was the best LWF in the world not so long ago. Declan Rice was going to single handily win Arsenal the premier league etc etc etc.
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I feel like we hold-ups examples of Celtic's transfer business far too often when valuing our own players.

Partially why we've had players walk for free because we've held out for £15m or more instead of £10m
 
It only takes 2 good games in a row & 6pts won for posters in here to quote that particular player is the best in Scotland (without doubt) far superior to anything they have got and and worth anything over 10 mill. It's crazy.
 
Fickle fans where opinions change from game to game

Example with Cantwell who arrived, done well to start, posted some wind up patter on social media and gets more praise and clout than the likes of Tav who’s contributed far more than him
 
EC54 said:
It only takes 2 good games in a row & 6pts won for posters in here to quote that particular player is the best in Scotland (without doubt) far superior to anything they have got and and worth anything over 10 mill. It's crazy.
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Usually a player that's absolutely shat it against the yahoos or let us down at the business end of things multiple times as well.
 
Wordy_Rappinghood said:
The "No brainer to give Lundstram a new deal" posts were the most egregious examples of that.

Playing in patches and being poor more than he's been good was what some fans considered the kind of performance level that merits a new contract.
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Lafferty turned into Messi for a couple of months a season ( the right end of the season)
 
Yes, every time.

And it'll be the same in the summer when we sign the next batch of un heard of or unproven players.
 
Greigwasthebest said:
We do but so does every set of fans.
Reluctantly bringing the dark side into play but remember Scott Sinclair's first season here and the hordes were clamouring for England call up.
Going back over the years, Boumsong bombed big time when he went to Newcastle and more recently, Bassey bumped by Ajax. Patterson hardly gets a game for Everton and Aribo isn't a regular in a championship side. To sum it up, the quality of Scottish football is basically guff in comparison to the big leagues.
Click to expand...

Being incredibly selective there.

Far more successes than failures from Scottish football in terms of mid to high profile transfers.
 
In a word, yes.

Just over a year ago Nico Raskin was future captain material and Cantwell was the classic "instantly the best player in the league".
 
Yes, very much so.

This comes from people who don’t watch any other football.

The same people that had us rocking up to Dublin for a quadruple a few weeks ago are the same people screaming and bawling at the players and staff on their way off the park.

Just no balance to their opinions. Hence why Ibrox is genuinely the most bipolar, reactive place on the planet.

Winning is great, drawing is disgruntlement, losing it’s the end of the world.
 
TCWNS1872 said:
Absolutely, especially on here.

For two years the club have spent relative fortunes to stand still and in most positions in the squad, actually regress.

What grounds do we have for thinking that summer 24 will be an outlier in a positive sense?

I'm struggling to think of any.
Click to expand...
New recruitment guy and a manager who's built teams and worked with players who've won league titles so (hopefully) knows what they look like. That's about it.
 
Our players are bipolar.

Looked very good for a while and everything was cushty. Reverted to type sadly.
 
Yes. A fairly popular thread, before the last Old Firm, discussing how winning this and next season's league titles would effectively shut Celtic out of the Champion's League permanently pretty clearly assumed far too much. Although, I'd have understood the optimism if the same thread was posted after winning that game - alas.
 
Yes

I'm of the opinion we could pick players from Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen and even Dundee and they'd come in and make us better.

I'm not convinced guys like Lawrence, Dowell, Matondo even dare I say it Goldson ( last two seasons ) are massively better than some players at other teams. Were paying massive wages for utter dross
 
Players turn into world beaters after a few good games, I've been laughed at a few times for saying Dowell and Lawrence were poor players and we needed better.

Every year it's the same story reality only kicks in when it's too late and any criticism is largely shut down and ignored until we're out of the title picture, then it's suddenly okay to pile on.

There's nobody at the club I'd be arsed at losing based on ability.
 
There's a pattern with new signings.

Phase 1:
We sign a guy who's record looks awful. Anyone querying the signing is shut down as being negative.

Phase 2:
People bizarrely get excited about mediocre performances, or go crazy for decent performances. I remember watching Cifuentes first few games and thinking he was awful but I heard a lot of "he's very tidy on the ball, he'll be great once he settles" type comments. Silva's first few games we had "he's on a different level to the others" and "fantastic footballer", etc.

Phase 3:
After a period of about two months, the new signing halo disappears and everyone starts slagging them and saying they are a waste of space.


For more established players, opinions shoot up and down depending on how the last 2-3 games have gone. For example, at points this season Lundstram has had a lot of praise and people were very worried he hadn't signed a new contract but after the last two games he's the worst player in the world. Matondo is generally regarded as awful, but after a couple of good goals there's a push to get him in the first 11.

Players out injured or on loan become world-beaters (see Hagi, Lammers, even Lowry).

In short, many football fans opinions are totally fickle. If we somehow managed to win at their ground and win the league, this group of players would be hailed as heroes and this period would be forgotten.
 
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