Totally agree wtf has happened to us when an old firm final is a free hit, what a shambles we are
Does clement need to win the final
- Thread starter BucksBear
- Start date
Crawford*****
Active Member
Y E S.
Now and forever
Well-Known Member
His record against them is poor so he can't add another defeat to that.
RFCDUMFRIES
Active Member
It will play a big part in his future.
BIGBISCUITOOO
Well-Known Member
Must win.
CraigMoore3
Well-Known Member
If we have 11 players out people calling it must win are detached from reality.
Hooty
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand the must win argument. If he doesn’t win, he isn’t getting sacked (nor should he). If he doesn’t win, it doesn’t stop the necessary squad overhaul in the close season.
And we will likely be in a worse position for the final compared to Saturday, given the even more limited players available currently.
If we don’t win, it’s sheer disappointment, and we go again with the manager in his first pre season at the club, and a new DOF Recruitment.
And we will likely be in a worse position for the final compared to Saturday, given the even more limited players available currently.
If we don’t win, it’s sheer disappointment, and we go again with the manager in his first pre season at the club, and a new DOF Recruitment.
The Modfather
Well-Known Member
Not so much Clement, but THE PLAYERS owe the club, the fans, their team mates, its them who have let everyone down on the park.
The PLAYERS owed the club the fans their team mates on Saturday lunchtime and couldn’t
Rt. Hon. Bearman
Well-Known Member
He will keep his job regardless of whether we lift the cup, and rightly so.
But it is must win in the sense that we should always been trying to win the Scottish Cup.
It is the only domestic trophy they have won more times than us and that irritates me.
But it is must win in the sense that we should always been trying to win the Scottish Cup.
It is the only domestic trophy they have won more times than us and that irritates me.
Talk of must win to me is crazy. Winning or lose the Scottish cup should make no difference on Clements future. IMO we would be crazy to even consider replacing him at the moment. If you were offered winning the league cup, topping euro group, taking the league race to the 37th game of the season and in the Scottish cup final when Clement took over you’d have taken it. Compared to where we were heading under Beale, Clements done a great job. I’d be backing him next 2 windows minimum.
The players on the other hand. There are far too many who are done for me. They are the ones who keep reverting to type. Done it under Gio, done it under Beale and are doing it under Clement. Every time we sack a manager those players get another “clean slate”, and we are never gonna build a squad capable of winning things/competing every season if we don’t back a manager over more than one summer. Players like Tavernier, Goldson (if he was fit), the fraud Lundstram, Barisic and more owe the fans after consistently collapsing in on themselves every time there is a hint of pressure. Some of them more than others
The players on the other hand. There are far too many who are done for me. They are the ones who keep reverting to type. Done it under Gio, done it under Beale and are doing it under Clement. Every time we sack a manager those players get another “clean slate”, and we are never gonna build a squad capable of winning things/competing every season if we don’t back a manager over more than one summer. Players like Tavernier, Goldson (if he was fit), the fraud Lundstram, Barisic and more owe the fans after consistently collapsing in on themselves every time there is a hint of pressure. Some of them more than others
A1bertz
Well-Known Member
I suspect a large amount of us expect to not win this game. We are back to where we were before and probably now view our chances as similar to Hearts or Aberdeen winning against them.
So to say he must win is a stretch and a half.
He must though show something. He must show he knows that midfield needs beefed up. He must show that Sterling isn't his right wing option. He must show that Lundstram is finished and now ditch him.
Then whatever happens next.
He must cut loose the last of the old regime in the summer. Tav and Goldson have to share that taxi away with Lundstram in the summer.
We can't tinker and leave them in place to try again next season. They can't be here again. They absolutely have to go.
So to say he must win is a stretch and a half.
He must though show something. He must show he knows that midfield needs beefed up. He must show that Sterling isn't his right wing option. He must show that Lundstram is finished and now ditch him.
Then whatever happens next.
He must cut loose the last of the old regime in the summer. Tav and Goldson have to share that taxi away with Lundstram in the summer.
We can't tinker and leave them in place to try again next season. They can't be here again. They absolutely have to go.
laudofan
Well-Known Member
Of course it shouldn't. Obviously it will be a big boost to everyone if we can win the Scottish Cup but PC obviously has plans for next season and he must be allowed time for those to come to fruition.
Pedro was clearly a mistake but we can't just change managers every October or whatever.
laudofan
Well-Known Member
Of course he can. If we get some players back it'll help. The bookies rate our chances at around 45%.
BrooklynBlue
Well-Known Member
When he was appointed, I'd guess the initial remit was to win a Cup, remain in Europe and close the gap in the League. He's done that, albeit in the latter it's because of dropped points elsewhere rather than us winning an OF.
Even taking into account the limitations of the squad and injuries, it's become a 'nearly season', one of 'what ifs...' including Europe.
Your final point is concerning. He has changed and been dragged into the goldfish bowl. There are so many interviews and press conferences that nonsense is spoken just to fill the space. He shouldn't be contributing to it.
GBY74
Well-Known Member
What have you seen from team selections or formations or style of play against them so far that'd suggest he can put a team on the park that can beat them. If we're being honest the game at the weekend was a must win for us and can you remember Hart making a save on the other hand Butland saved us from being utterly humiliated.
laudofan
Well-Known Member
It's not his fault that a lot of the questions are the same mundane, repetitive crap.
Yes, maybe his gladiator stuff etc wasn't ideal but you get that kind of flowery imagery sometimes with foreign coaches. It's not really that significant.
laudofan
Well-Known Member
Well ... we could easily have won at Ibrox in April if Dessers' shot had sneaked in. Granted, Saturday wasn't so encouraging but we'll never know how it would have gone if it stayed 11 v 11.
I'm just saying the bookies rate us as a 45% shot - so they obviously think it's eminently possible that Rangers will lift the cup.
GBY74
Well-Known Member
Is that seriously the hope we're now clinging to, dear me.
Roskoranger
Well-Known Member
The most disappointing fact is they are not a good team and have been played off the park by Hearts and Killie. Still raging. Managers Team selections recently are baffling to say the least.
laudofan
Well-Known Member
No two games at the same. We need to do a few things better obviously - and scoring the first goal could make a huge difference to how the game pans out.
FedericoNieto
Well-Known Member
What really concerns me about this never ending cycling we are on is that there are definite red flags regarding his management already and you are only kidding yourself if you think that’s not the case.
Therefore, if we give him the chance with his “own” team and by October it once again isn’t happening we are backed into a corner where we are yet again listening to the broken record that is a manager in charge of a team that according to the support “isn’t his team” and this cycle repeats as “he must be given a chance to put his own team together” where does this all actually end ?
Therefore, if we give him the chance with his “own” team and by October it once again isn’t happening we are backed into a corner where we are yet again listening to the broken record that is a manager in charge of a team that according to the support “isn’t his team” and this cycle repeats as “he must be given a chance to put his own team together” where does this all actually end ?
GBY74
Well-Known Member
I'm not completely disagreeing and we do need to do things different however our players are terrified of them. We dominated them under Gerrard and their players were terrified of us, unfortunately now that's turned.
BlueSeaOfIbrox
Well-Known Member
If we drop points/lose in the next 3 old firms he's gone.
Has to win the final to get the duck off his back at least
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BlueSeaOfIbrox
Well-Known Member
No matter what Gerrard found a way to win against them.
Not just win but like you said dominated. Some of those old firms were the most one sided I've ever seen.
KensingtonBlue
Well-Known Member
No. It’s a ludicrous suggestion. He needs to be given the chance to rebuild in the summer no matter what happens on the 25th
GBY74
Well-Known Member
Gerrard was a leader and knew the standards our club demanded unfortunately our board couldn't handle those demands resulting in us falling miles behind. Any true fan can look at Gerrard's record against Celtic and look at our record since it's really not rocket science.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
He doesn't need to but it would certainly help his case. You can already feel the trigger happy section of the support loading up their weapons.
He certainly needs to change up the approach. The midfield was far too easy to play through. Lundstram can't feature. I wouldn't even have him on the bench after his performance on Saturday.
He certainly needs to change up the approach. The midfield was far too easy to play through. Lundstram can't feature. I wouldn't even have him on the bench after his performance on Saturday.
Times and expections are starting to change.
The financial gap has changed it.
Yes.
Yes he does.
Wont be sacked if he loses cup final, but several thousand fans will lose faith in him.
Yes he does.
Wont be sacked if he loses cup final, but several thousand fans will lose faith in him.
IbroxMainStand
Well-Known Member
Gerrard got his first old firm win with Halliday at left back Worrall in defence and a midfield three which cost the club nothing with Jack, McCrorie and Arfield.
Sometimes the system is much more important than the quality of individual players. Its especially true in this fixture when more often than not it comes down to what team wants it more on the day.
Zandermac
Well-Known Member
Going to be a lot harder now with all the injuries we are racking up
uncle argyll
Member
He will quite rightly be given next season to do it his way .However if we don't manage to beat them in any game next season that changes everything .
Couldn’t agree more
By actually giving a manager the chance to build a team over a season or two, and actually have some stability. The more we sack managers every season the less attractive we become to managers as well. We need to actually back someone and that includes any rough patches through a season which will inevitably come with any rebuild
Ibroxkev
Well-Known Member
Not for me.
We had a sniff at winning the league from a position that would never have been achievable without Clement’s influence.
Yes I’m raging that we threw the chance away but I can also be pragmatic and say that if we hadn’t lost players like Sima, Danillo & Cortes we wouldn’t have thrown it away like we did.
The players that were left had to go to the well game after game and it’s no doubt taken its toll to some extent & at the same time he was forced to play people who wouldn’t normally get a sniff and others had to play out of position.
For Me, Clement has the whole of next season before we should question as to whether he is moved on.
We had a sniff at winning the league from a position that would never have been achievable without Clement’s influence.
Yes I’m raging that we threw the chance away but I can also be pragmatic and say that if we hadn’t lost players like Sima, Danillo & Cortes we wouldn’t have thrown it away like we did.
The players that were left had to go to the well game after game and it’s no doubt taken its toll to some extent & at the same time he was forced to play people who wouldn’t normally get a sniff and others had to play out of position.
For Me, Clement has the whole of next season before we should question as to whether he is moved on.
Willie Mac
Well-Known Member
Disagree, he's been dealt an absolutely shit hand and players who have chucked it. He needs to keep trotting out the same old shite because he cant throw the players under the bus because up until he can bring in new players its all he's got.
I'm not having a go at you here but if people cant see that then they're looking in the wrong areas.
WarnbroTavernier
Active Member
Topping the group and then getting pumped out next round isn't what Rangers is all about. It puts you in a good position and it's financially beneficial, but if you get slapped out in the next round then it's blown away. Nothing to crow about anyway
WeShouldPlay442
Member
Free hit because of injuries and he inky signed 1 player that will play. But we need to atleast put up a fight
Jock Battle Fever Wallace
Well-Known Member
Of course it's a must win because every game at Rangers is a must win (especially against the bheast). However, let's be realistic, we are running on empty with regards to injuries and players that have clearly downed tools as they are heading for the exit door (thank goodness). What I'm looking at more than anything in this final is the level of performance and application from the men that take to the park in blue. So fed up of watching Rangers players standing off bheast players and showing them way too much respect. Go battle and fight, show a bit of courage and take the game to them. Work their defence and ask questions of that big helmet of a goalkeeper. They're not a great side as has been shown with their adventures in Europe and when teams press them with aggression. Yet we continue to sit off them, give them goals cheaply and fail to test their creaking backline.
So it comes down to the performance for me. Get it right and we give ourselves a great chance of bringing the cup back to Ibrox. If we don't start the game properly, show desire and aggression, win the midfield battle...again...then I fear for us going forward. The management and players owe the Rangers fans a performance against these scumbags in the final. We expect nothing less than desire, determination and belief. Lastly, it will be interesting to see who makes the starting line-up and the formation he selects to try and boss the middle of the park to give us a platform in the game. If he sticks with those who have failed our club time and time again, we all know who they are, then he possibly condemns himself to losing the backing of a significant section of the Rangers support. If anyone in blue can't get the battle fever on for Saturday week at Hampden, don't let them on the bus.
So it comes down to the performance for me. Get it right and we give ourselves a great chance of bringing the cup back to Ibrox. If we don't start the game properly, show desire and aggression, win the midfield battle...again...then I fear for us going forward. The management and players owe the Rangers fans a performance against these scumbags in the final. We expect nothing less than desire, determination and belief. Lastly, it will be interesting to see who makes the starting line-up and the formation he selects to try and boss the middle of the park to give us a platform in the game. If he sticks with those who have failed our club time and time again, we all know who they are, then he possibly condemns himself to losing the backing of a significant section of the Rangers support. If anyone in blue can't get the battle fever on for Saturday week at Hampden, don't let them on the bus.
Highway Star
Well-Known Member
Diomande is his own player and he's been woeful in his 2 games against them.
He's been anonymous for large spells of both games, which is criminal for a central midfielder.
I'm hoping he's just needed time to adjust to the pace of the games against them, but I guarantee Clement will be desperate to get Ryan Jack fit for the final, if at all possible.
He's been steadily building up his training workload.
robbo89
Well-Known Member
The crazy thing when you look back was how instantly the fixture switched from being dominated by us to being dominated by them. It was instantaneous, with no in-between period of evenly fought games.
Gerrard had us unbeaten against them in 7 games, the very next Old Firm we got battered 3-0 and now two years later the only meaningful game we've won against them since then was Gio's Scottish Cup's semi-final after extra-time.
Goes to show the effect Gerrard had for us and what can be done with the right manager at the helm. I'm hoping Clement can be that man but he needs a victory in the fixture to prove he can be just like Gerrard did in 2018.
BlackfordLoyal
Well-Known Member
I'll be brutally honest it feels like we are building upto the Edinburgh final 2012 final us being the Hivs 
