Helander over Katic

Quite disappointed in the back two tonight.
Although we do finally have a right sided and a left sided central defender after these last three games I have noticed that both Goldson and Helander are not bravest in going for headers, or tackles.
Both lack pace and unfortunately can get bullied.

Tonight was a game just taylor made for Katic.
Somebody who revels in this type of play.
Puzzling.
Surely not square pegs in round holes…again!
 
I've slated Goldson over the past few games and last night was no different, again I thought he was poor and Helander had a mare IMO, he is not the quickest which is a worry.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Couple of things Woodrow.

Helander was poor last night and was also unconvincing on the plastic at East Fife as well.

However, it's back to grass on Saturday and he's already proved himself on that surface against a very good Feyenoord attack.

Some of us on here noticed the "bog standard" Lyndon Dykes at Ibrox a couple of weeks ago, when he consistently beat Katic in the air and destroyed him for pace.
That was on grass too.

We even mentioned it on the thread about him, if you check.

Dykes will comfortably be the quickest striker in the country and while his overall play isn't at Rangers standard, he's a very awkward opponent, particularly on the plastic.

Remember he's very used to the surface too, coming from QOS.
He'd give any central defender a rough ride on that surface.

We also saw Julian and Ajer in particular, and Celtic in general, struggle against a lesser side in Hamilton on the plastic a couple of weeks ago.

Outside their goal, not one shot on target and barely a chance created.

I'd go with Helander against Aberdeen, but whether or not he starts against Young Boys, on the artificial surface is another matter.

Both him and Katic look very vulnerable on the plastic.

Big call for Gerrard.
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What you say could very well be true, but why is Goldson bomb proof?
Thought he was equally poor tonight!
I keep saying this…it’s about the best partnership, and for me so far that is the partnership that has got us to two Europa Group Leagues in a row!
 
Helander was really poor last night but let's not pretend Katic playing instead would have made it plain sailing.

Dykes bullied Katic as well the last time we played Livingston, the guy is big physical and quick. If he had any real technical ability he wouldn't be at Livingston as he has all the physical attributes.
 
Helander was poor last night against Livi , Katic was poor at Ibrox against Livi only thing to defend Helander is he probably hasn’t ever come up against a ‘ style’ like Livi in his professional career.
I get it Katic is the big favourite of many noisy posters , I think he will turn out to be a great centerback, but we mustn’t forget he was poor against Celtic then Livi so perhaps him dropping out was needed.
I would bring him back in against Aberdeen because they also play with a big lump of wood up front then Helander back for Bern.
 
Laudrup11Cooper said:
What you say could very well be true, but why is Goldson bomb proof?
Thought he was equally poor tonight!
I keep saying this…it’s about the best partnership, and for me so far that is the partnership that has got us to two Europa Group Leagues in a row!
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I thought Goldson was far better than Helander last night mate, both positionally and physically.

I watched the game again last night when I got back from the game and the thing I noticed most was Goldson pretty much winning every long throw they launched into the box.

We also created the better chances to score too, which I'd never really noticed during the game.
 
Woodrow Call said:
Dress this up any wa you like chaps.

Tonight our 3 million quid centre half looked as bad as Kiernan and Svenson.

Getting beat in the air and on a sprint is nothing to do with the pitch. I let him off when May rolled him on Sunday but tonight he was absolute garbage.
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That's down to a lack of pace, which Helander has never had.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
On the grass too mate.
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It seems that people aren't going to be happy until Katic is back in the side regardless. It wasn't a great defensive performance last night (BB apart) but it was an awkward night against an opponent who were basically given free reign to be as physical as possible, on a horrific pitch, and we kept a clean sheet. Every single error by either Goldson or Helander is now going to be magnified tenfold by these guys to justify their stance on Katic. Can see some people are already in the process of writing Helander off, and Goldson gets it tight on a weekly basis. The fact is that, although Stevie G sees Goldson and Helander as his first choice partnership, they will all play their part this season.
 
Helander looked like a novice last night - no denying it, this looked like his first game for us after being thrown in. I think it will take him time to adapt to these blood and thunder games and more importantly the artificial surfaces.

He is more of a stroller and brilliant reader of the game and you just can't do that on a plastic pitch - it's a different type of game and it clearly threw him last night.

Katic probably shouldn't have been dropped but the writing was on the wall from last year that he would be - kind of feel for him and it's never a clever idea to drop a fan favourite at the drop of a hat so not sure what's going on there.
 
It’s hard to criticise any of our players last night with that shocking surface they were playing on, plus the ref let far too much go
 
I’ve been impressed with Helander up until the second half last night then who knows what happened to him! I would bring Katic in to deal with Cosgrove at the weekend.
 
As with many a debate over Ryan Kent and his stats from last season, you sometimes need to ignore the stats and go with what you see in front of you.

Helander absolutely failed to do the basics last night.

We have had three clean sheets in three games however that’s been down to McGregor and not some impenetrable defence that’s been formed by Goldson and Helander. A better quality striker would have scored at least one.

Helander isn’t a diddy however there are just certain fixtures he won’t be suited to and last night was 100% one to them and Aberdeen will be exactly the same.
 
Firstly, Katic for me is first pick as a centre half, it's between the other 3 to fight it out for who partners him, IMO.

However, in defence of Goldson and Helander last night, it's difficult to command in the air when you're unsure if your nose is going to be broken or you'll be split open due to someone leading with an arm or elbow.

I felt our players were inevitably rattled last night by Robertson's failure to punish Livingston for their adoption of the Motherwell style of football.

The fact we played it down after the match is a disgrace.
 
My biggest criticism of our manager in relation to team set up is that he seems to be to some extent sacrificing our chances of winning the league by focusing on building a team more fit for the Europa league.

The set up against the filth was baffling and as if we were defending a slender lead in a two legged affair which kind of threw our defence under the bus. I’ll be honest I think SG is disposed to thinking that in terms of his personal reputation Europe is entirely more important than winning our diddy league.

This constant tinkering with the side does nothing to deliver long term consistency which is required to win league titles. On Katic for me he is a more combative, physical defender who can play comfortably domestically and in Europe.

Goldson is a good defender who thinks he’s an elegant Beckenbauer type, but clearly is not and to that end should keep it simple as his distribution honks. Helander needs to be given the benefit of the doubt as he has had little game time in terms of the SPL and clearly hasn’t fully adapted to the shite pitches and hammer throwers.

Our priority has to be the league, not because of their completely irrelevant eight potentially nine...But for the fact that we belong at the top of Scottish football which in turn is a route to the riches of the CL, for me this is when SG will properly start to earn his corn.

He needs to stop his tinkering which imho probably cost us the league last season, Worral over Katic, the former ironically having his best game against the filth in December in a team that the manager chose to disrupt against Killie with two guys who’d hardly kicked a ball in six months...Davis and Defoe’s lack of basic fitness was catastrophic in that game and handed the impetus right back to the filth.

The manager must prioritise consistency and continuity in the league over all else, use the Europa league to experiment, winning the league is sacrosanct imho.
 
Govanx said:
I watched on RTV mate (don't know if you were there and had a better all around view) and even Durrant was agreeing with my thoughts. My opinion is that in the past DC would track back and help Tav out and that option is no longer there, so at times instead of holding a back four when we are a goal or so up there is pressure put on a back two or back three witjh Goldson being exposed needlessly. Only my opinion of course and since it's a Katic/Helander thread i will leave it at that.
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Nah I was watching it on BT Sports but there were 2 times in particular where the commentators had pointed out that Tav was out of position, but I'd noticed he made a bursting run forward only for us to cheaply lose possession.
 
CaptainObjective said:
He was dreadful. A £3.5m center half with experience in Serie A football should be commanding against dross like Livingston. He was all over the shop and made Lyndon Dykes look like Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
[/QUOTE/]
You could say the same for Katic a couple a weeks ago at Ibrox.Ragdolled and lost every battle in the air against the same Livingston team.
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Helander looks quite a strange player. Doesn't strike you as particularly fearsome, strong, pacey or aggressive.

He did well in the Europa League so we'll see how it works out but dealing with robust hammer throwers and long balls is our bread and butter.
 

Agreed. In all honesty none of our CB's convince me. Katic is probably the best of a bad lot. Still early days for Helander but last night was extremely concerning. Edmundson should be given a chance.
 
Helander is going to grow into a really top defender for us. He reads the game Really well despite the critics re Livingston which let’s face it was a nightmare for quite a few players. It’s just great to have good defenders competing for places , let’s be happy about that.
 
Folk saying Katic should come back in after Helander's performance against Livi are clearly forgetting that Katic's poorest performance this season was at home to Livi and last season was away to Livi. I'd stick with Helander but I'd have no issue with Katic coming in against Aberdeen either as he absolutely bossed it agains them at the end of last season at Ibrox.
 
ID10 said:
Would have hoped my blog would have done that start of week! ;)

We as fans need to chill a wee but & stop assuming there is an issue all the time

Katic loves it here & we love him

Hope he’s back in team soon
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Where can one find this blog, of which you speak? I enjoy a good blog, so a dae.
 
cloodie said:
Folk saying Katic should come back in after Helander's performance against Livi are clearly forgetting that Katic's poorest performance this season was at home to Livi and last season was away to Livi. I'd stick with Helander but I'd have no issue with Katic coming in against Aberdeen either as he absolutely bossed it agains them at the end of last season at Ibrox.
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I still don't see many people saying Katic should play for Helander...it's Goldson who is totally undroppable for some reason.
 
I think we have superb group of central defenders.
Each one of them has different attributes.
Also we are covered well for having right and left central defenders.
Gerrard has said on more than one occasion, it will be ‘horses for courses’.
Let‘s see.I think the back four will be the same.
So it will be interesting to see how Goldson, and Helander deal with Cosgrove who like Dykes… can be a handful!
 
Danger Zone said:
Mate you’re unreal. “The best of a bad lot”?

What do you smoke and where do you get it from?
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I don't rate Goldson at all. His distribution is terrible and his 1v1 defending laughable. Gets beat too easily. Sample size is large at this point. He's just not very good imo. Katic is ok and has potential but can still look unconvincing. He's another one who struggled to deal with Landon Dykes..

Hellander can't get a game for Sweden who's back-line is beyond average. He did well vs Feyenoord but let's be honest he wasn't up against much. Toiled badly when up against a bit of physicality vs Livingston. Not writing him off as we simply haven't seen enough of him but my alarm bells are ringing.

Can't really comment on Edmundson as he's barely had a chance.
 
Surely Katic suit tomorrow's game against the sheep more than Helander does. It's going to be a physical battle against Cosgrove which I'm not sure, at this moment in time, Helander is up for. Katic on the other hand will relish the fight.
 
CaptainObjective said:
I don't rate Goldson at all. His distribution is terrible and his 1v1 defending laughable. Gets beat too easily. Sample size is large at this point. He's just not very good imo. Katic is ok and has potential but can still look unconvincing. He's another one who struggled to deal with Landon Dykes..

Hellander can't get a game for Sweden who's back-line is beyond average. He did well vs Feyenoord but let's be honest he wasn't up against much. Toiled badly when up against a bit of physicality vs Livingston. Not writing him off as we simply haven't seen enough of him but my alarm bells are ringing.

Can't really comment on Edmundson as he's barely had a chance.
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Goldson is a good defender who’s form goes wayward every now and then, defenders get beaten from time to time and form goes. Yeah his distribution is dire.

Helander is only just in the door, and he can’t get a game for Sweden, but he was playing in a cracking league and it’s important to remember we play in the SPL, not the EPL.

Katic had performed very well this season and at the tail end of last season and he’s a young player, very promising.

Edmundson hasn’t had much game time but looked very good when he did. I have no idea how you could look our options and describe any as the “best of a bad bunch”
 
Danger Zone said:
Goldson is a good defender who’s form goes wayward every now and then, defenders get beaten from time to time and form goes. Yeah his distribution is dire.

Helander is only just in the door, and he can’t get a game for Sweden, but he was playing in a cracking league and it’s important to remember we play in the SPL, not the EPL.

Katic had performed very well this season and at the tail end of last season and he’s a young player, very promising.

Edmundson hasn’t had much game time but looked very good when he did. I have no idea how you could look our options and describe any as the “best of a bad bunch”
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Depends who you are comparing them with. Rob Kiernan? Russel Martin? or Cuellar and Weir..
 
If Katic was dropped due to Livi game at Ibrox then along the same lines Helander should probably be dropped after Livi away. Good problem to have, none of them are total shite which is good
 
Saltire said:
Surely Katic suit tomorrow's game against the sheep more than Helander does. It's going to be a physical battle against Cosgrove which I'm not sure, at this moment in time, Helander is up for. Katic on the other hand will relish the fight.
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Couldn’t agree more.
Unfortunately Gerrard doesn’t. So it will be the same back four as Wednesday.
We go again!
 
The whole point of having a squad is to have someone in the background itching to get in when if you don't perform. I guess It's a nice theory. But it's clearly not enforced.
 
Laudrup11Cooper said:
Couldn’t agree more.
Unfortunately Gerrard doesn’t. So it will be the same back four as Wednesday.
We go again!
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See …told you Helander wouldn’t play.
100% wrong.Well done Stevie Gerrard and going with your convictions and playing the on form pairing.
Once again thought an in form Katic from what I saw, balanced out an out of form Goldson.Still it’s about the pairing, and again today proved to me they are the best pairing.
 
This will prove costly playing Helander tonight.
Absolute Horror on a plastic pitch at Livingstone then decide to play him tonight
 
Not convinced with Helander, looks clumsy and cumbersome but in Gerrard we trust.
 
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