Pedro Presser

RFC#1Scotty said:
Clearly you weren't paying attention, Pedro didn't set up the team to play any other way, he done so to test the players under his style of play and they proved they weren't good enough thus the reason they were replaced by better players.

Fact is you're comparing Rangers off a 5-1 defeat, how can you when those players did not play for Rangers back then? It's stupidity if you ask me, only the unwise would attempt such a thing.
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He had the cup game the week before the league game. I was there paying close attention-for an experienced manager to have already seen a draw against them at home set up the way he did was difficult to fathom.

You don't get to do tests during OF games not unless of course you might want to consider you might deliver the worst home loss in our history.

These 2 games are an albatross for Pedro. Our punters do do OF defeats and they certainly don't do absolute kickings at home. This is why he personally is under massive pressure on Saturday as is his new team as you put it.
 
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DylanGer said:
The details of how we cover defensively. I just don't get why he gives the media so much detail about tactics-nobody else does and they don't give a monkeys.
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Do you honestly think any of the premier league managers won't be able to work this out themselves by watching it? As much as I think he's a chances, I'm sure David Brent across the city didn't suddenly sit up with a lightbulb across his head when Pedro explained a fairly simple defensive cover pattern
 
54ysae said:
Can you detail some of these tactical changes for us plebs?
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Why would you say it like that, champ?

I recognise it's not a great example for my argument but the one that springs most readily to mind is the changes in the 2nd half against Hibs that could have easily rescued a point from a pretty hopeless situation. It wasn't at all pretty but we scored one and created a few decent chances in the last 10.

I'd say it's right to start games attacking the flanks to try and pull packed defences apart and get behind them but bringing on Herrera and Pena in games have seen us markedly shift to holding the ball in central areas creating space for wide players to get in on goal. Particularly worked on Tuesday and against Dundee.
 
Gazzamac06 said:
Do you honestly think any of the premier league managers won't be able to work this out themselves by watching it? As much as I think he's a chances, I'm sure David Brent across the city didn't suddenly sit up with a lightbulb across his head when Pedro explained a fairly simple defensive cover pattern
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It's not one example though he does it constantly. Of course the other managers studying their opponents but my worry with Pedro is he doesn't look like he's done it against Celtic yet. We can't just turn up and do our own thing against a stronger opponent.

The notion the media are taking this in any serious fashion is a nonsense-the headlines tomorrow will be about Morelos being provoked and if we do badly Pedro's eulogies on tactics will be used as a stick to beat him with.
Press conferences ins this country are no more than a rat run to get out the other end of without giving them the ammo to damage you with-Pedro strangely seems to enjoy engaging with them far too much-doesn't he recall the ridicule of last season?
 
Butcher6 said:
Talk is cheap let's see if he can set us up properly to beat them.
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"Talk is cheap", growls Stauncho McStaunch after watching... er... the press conference.

Honestly think if Pedro dropped £100 in a Save the Children charity tin half this board would be going spare it wasn't Guide Dogs for the Blind.
 
DylanGer said:
He had the cup game the week before the league game. I was there paying close attention-for an experienced manager to have already seen a draw against them at home set up the way he did was difficult to fathom.

You don't get to do tests during OF games not unless of course you might want to consider you might deliver the worst home loss in our history.

These 2 games are an albatross for Pedro. Our punters do do OF defeats and they certainly don't do absolute kickings at home. This is why he personally is under massive pressure on Saturday as is his new team as you put it.
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As I stated, Pedro did not set his team up last season to be defensive like Murty had and it clearly isn't Pedro's style of play. The quality of player at Rangers was not good enough to play in that formation especially against a team like Celtic. It is irrational to base judgement from last season to this season given that it's an entirely different squad of players.

You may have a case this season and depending how he does against Celtic this season but at the moment I don't think anyone can judge as Rangers haven't yet played Celtic.

Pedro admitted that he was brought in at that stage to test the players out and that's what he had done. Well given that we were miles behind already he had. I don't disagree that he is under pressure and that it is not acceptable, but I have faith in Pedro and he has my full support.

Having assessed your comments lurking in the background since June I've yet to see one positive comment you've made, you remind me of the type that even if Rangers were winning you'd still find some way to run them down.
 
Hobjo said:
Why would you say it like that, champ?

I recognise it's not a great example for my argument but the one that springs most readily to mind is the changes in the 2nd half against Hibs that could have easily rescued a point from a pretty hopeless situation. It wasn't at all pretty but we scored one and created a few decent chances in the last 10.

I'd say it's right to start games attacking the flanks to try and pull packed defences apart and get behind them but bringing on Herrera and Pena in games have seen us markedly shift to holding the ball in central areas creating space for wide players to get in on goal. Particularly worked on Tuesday and against Dundee.
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We've played the same formation every week apart from the cup game on Tuesday.

4-4-2 with Miller drifting about Morelos
The only change has come from Windass picking up an injury and Niko filling in that role

Nothing wrong with playing the same formation or personnel,
but let's not kid on the manager is some tactical genius that is tweeking the shape every 30 mins
 
I detected a greater sense of respect being shown to Pedro by the media. Certainly more respect than from some of our fans.
If you listen to his analysis of where we get things right and wrong, it all points to him being very much studious in his approach and understanding. I feel that he's just a gnats cock away from it all coming together, he clearly knows how he wants the team to play.
I've always wanted our managers to be a success obviously, but never as much as I now want Pedro to make it happen.
 
Hobjo said:
"Talk is cheap", growls Stauncho McStaunch after watching... er... the press conference.

Honestly think if Pedro dropped £100 in a Save the Children charity tin half this board would be going spare it wasn't Guide Dogs for the Blind.
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I think you are missing the point mate and trying too hard.

My watershed moment was the cup semi last year -I'd listened to Pedro bought into the fact here was a guy who seemed to be a student of the game and clearly intelligent individual...I argued on here he wouldn't go with his normal style-he'd seen the Murty game he studied the opponent.

What did we get? So you go wait a minute...and you then get the 5-1 game at home with a line up that might have came randomly out of a bag of squad players.

He has his work cut out-you and I know even if he gets it right on Saturday-a defeat will be too much for too many of our support and I'd state that isn't fair.

This is fundamental he really needs to show he can set a team up-he hasn't really done it in an important game yet-he's had his moments the Pittodrie result etc but that wasn't a tactical masterclass by any measure.

Trust me Pedro isn't doomed, Saturday doesn't have to be a wash out but he really needs to do the basics-good set up and good application. He can do no more than that and if he does I will defend him to the hilt.
 
54ysae said:
We've played the same formation every week apart from the cup game on Tuesday.

4-4-2 with Miller drifting about Morelos
The only change has come from Windass picking up an injury and Niko filling in that role

Nothing wrong with playing the same formation or personnel,
but let's not kid on the manager is some tactical genius that is tweeking the shape every 30 mins
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The Hibs 2nd half was a major change in formation (which he did against Motherwell at Ibrox last season with 11 men). I never said he was tweaking every 30 mins but formation is one thing, what the players do within it changes during the game. I'm also not saying he's a "tactical genius" if you want to go back. I just said I can't remember seeing the manager's wishes so obviously on the park from moment to moment at Ibrox. For better or worse.

I remember sitting watching games under Walter II that weren't going our way and there would be a completely passive bench. No instruction, motivation, nothing. It boiled my blood because we were basically saying "someone will do something" and sometimes nae f@cker did.
 
Pedro is a breath of fresh air in the Scottish game. He's finally getting some grudged respect as the penny drops he isn't someone to be messed around . He clearly is an intelligent , driven individual , well qualified and knows details of the game some of us can only dream of.

Listening to his examples there was fantastic , the thickos in our media will be scratching their heads.

I really hope we can get a result on Saturday because Pedro has put the work in , and deserves a break . A draw would be fine and allow him some breathing space .

We'd be utterly foolish to even think about replacing the manager even if we lose on sat but some will sadly want him gone .
 
AllanD said:
I enjoyed that, it's good to hear his points on the team, not going to be going 4-4-2 and also the awareness that the bastards will try and provoke Morelos, and putting it out there the blocking of keepers. Very smart work from Pedro highlighting this.
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Agreed. Hooper used to do this constantly and got away with it.
Wise to get it out there.

On another point, Pedro discussing Celtics 2 tactical options....
Rodgers is up his own arse so far that it really would not surprise me to see him go for something unusual so he can get one up.

Though I'm sure Pedro is alert to this possibility.
He's spent time in his company so he much how much of a wank the man is.
 
Hobjo said:
"Talk is cheap", growls Stauncho McStaunch after watching... er... the press conference.

Honestly think if Pedro dropped £100 in a Save the Children charity tin half this board would be going spare it wasn't Guide Dogs for the Blind.
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What on earth are you foaming at the gub for?

Do you not think it's valid that Pedro struggles to set us up properly in the big games?

He does and his record shows that as I said he talks the talk but hasn't walked the walk has he.
 
Hobjo said:
The Hibs 2nd half was a major change in formation (which he did against Motherwell at Ibrox last season with 11 men). I never said he was tweaking every 30 mins but formation is one thing, what the players do within it changes during the game. I'm also not saying he's a "tactical genius" if you want to go back. I just said I can't remember seeing the manager's wishes so obviously on the park from moment to moment at Ibrox. For better or worse.

I remember sitting watching games under Walter II that weren't going our way and there would be a completely passive bench. No instruction, motivation, nothing. It boiled my blood because we were basically saying "someone will do something" and sometimes nae f@cker did.
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We were down to ten men ffs pretty obvious he changed it during the Hibs game but got it wrong.
 
DylanGer said:
I think you are missing the point mate and trying too hard.

My watershed moment was the cup semi last year -I'd listened to Pedro bought into the fact here was a guy who seemed to be a student of the game and clearly intelligent individual...I argued on here he wouldn't go with his normal style-he'd seen the Murty game he studied the opponent.

What did we get? So you go wait a minute...and you then get the 5-1 game at home with a line up that might have came randomly out of a bag of squad players.

He has his work cut out-you and I know even if he gets it right on Saturday-a defeat will be too much for too many of our support and I'd state that isn't fair.

This is fundamental he really needs to show he can set a team up-he hasn't really done it in an important game yet-he's had his moments the Pittodrie result etc but that wasn't a tactical masterclass by any measure.

Trust me Pedro isn't doomed, Saturday doesn't have to be a wash out but he really needs to do the basics-good set up and good application. He can do no more than that and if he does I will defend him to the hilt.
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Not sure what this has to do with the post quoted but OK. Here's where we differ... I think we set up much more appropriately and better now, already, than we have since Walter.

Already I think that. It doesn't guarantee we have the right quality of player yet to be successful but our our organisation is very clear. I gravely suspect that people who don't see that are either trying too hard not to, or wouldn't know it if it crawled up their backside.
 
DylanGer said:
Dream on I think, he gave them their headline with the provoke comments and I have never seen a manager go into such detail on tactics .

He is good copy for them but the only thing that is going to buy him credibility is results especially against those bastards.

I don't think Pedro has learned or he can't help himself but at the end of the day only results will define his future not the media. They will be like everybody else waiting to see how we line up and deal with Saturday and they will be waiting to pounce if it goes wrong-that's what they do.
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If we play as well as Pedro spoke today we're fcukin pumping that ugly bunch of rehtards bring them on!!!!!
 
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AllanD said:
I enjoyed that, it's good to hear his points on the team, not going to be going 4-4-2 and also the awareness that the bastards will try and provoke Morelos, and putting it out there the blocking of keepers. Very smart work from Pedro highlighting this.
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Agree completely. Very clever.

Now, let's get intae the rattlers Rangers :D
 
Butcher6 said:
What on earth are you foaming at the gub for?

Do you not think it's valid that Pedro struggles to set us up properly in the big games?

He does and his record shows that as I said he talks the talk but hasn't walked the walk has he.
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Is this one of these "last season, someone else's players, two development squad players in defence" debates because there's a previous board out there in the web somewhere if you want to go round and round those old houses.

No I don't think it's valid.
 
Hobjo said:
Is this one of these "last season, someone else's players, two development squad players in defence" debates because there's a previous board out there in the web somewhere if you want to go round and round those old houses.

No I don't think it's valid.
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Hibs Hearts two thistle games this season not to mention the worst result in our clubs history that would be this season.
 
Hobjo said:
Not sure what this has to do with the post quoted but OK. Here's where we differ... I think we set up much more appropriately and better now, already, than we have since Walter.

Already I think that. It doesn't guarantee we have the right quality of player yet to be successful but our our organisation is very clear. I gravely suspect that people who don't see that are either trying too hard not to, or wouldn't know it if it crawled up their backside.
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A very perspecacious couple of points at the end there well done keep up the good work I like it
 
Butcher6 said:
Hibs Hearts two thistle games this season not to mention the worst result in our clubs history that would be this season.
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Hibs game we were cheated in; Hearts game we scored and should have been 1-0 and the goal that was onside was chopped off; Partick Thistle game they should have had a player sent off in the first half enabling Rangers to control the 1-0 lead.

Whilst there are faults there it seems like you were very quick to dismiss those points.
 
I think yeez'll love Pedro even more if he starts the team on a winning run from Saturday onwards.


He sounds confident enough, let's get behind him and our team.
 
I really want Pedro to succeed with us, love the way he talks.

Guarantee the manky mob are sitting by their phones absolutely seething about his comments, ready to call in Clyde 1 as soon as it hits 6 o'clock! :D
 
Hobjo said:
Not fair, you said "big games".


How would you have set up against Hibs and Hearts?
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They were all big games.

Would have set up to be more defensively solid against Hibs once it became apparent they were finding loads of space and eventually scored. Hearts when it was clear were happy with the draw we should've been more aggressive quicker passing.

As I said Pedro just can't set us up properly we are too open and even dross can get in about us with ease the Dundee game being an example.
 
Hobjo said:
Not sure what this has to do with the post quoted but OK. Here's where we differ... I think we set up much more appropriately and better now, already, than we have since Walter.

Already I think that. It doesn't guarantee we have the right quality of player yet to be successful but our our organisation is very clear. I gravely suspect that people who don't see that are either trying too hard not to, or wouldn't know it if it crawled up their backside.
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You are out on a limb there. The fact is the 2 central players in our preferred system often get overran -we have a tendency and I can't work out if it is accident or design to lose control of games-every team has carved us open at times-better teams than Hearts and Dundee would have hurt us at Ibrox.

We are very uneven-the good the bad and indifferent emerging in most games-he admits himself we are losing soft goals. We have key personnel we are not sure how they will fit into the 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1).

Of course there is time to fix or develop things but it is not as you say it is-it remains unconvincing overall but with signs of promise.

Celtic are a team who are potent-effective call it what you want but they tend to kill games off and as such knock the life out of teams. They are not unbeatable though and they have struggled at times-us at home should be their biggest challenge-we should be able to set up to deliver that-if you right then it shouldn't even be a question. But I think you know it is and a a rather large and dangerous one for the manager.
 
RFC#1Scotty said:
Hibs game we were cheated in; Hearts game we scored and should have been 1-0 and the goal that was onside was chopped off; Partick Thistle game they should have had a player sent off in the first half enabling Rangers to control the 1-0 lead.

Whilst there are faults there it seems like you were very quick to dismiss those points.
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So against these sides it was the refs fault ffs is that what we are resorting to now.

Hibs game apart the others we should be winning and even in the Hibs game the manager for me showed a complete lack of tactical nous and we didn't tighten up at all and the game was gone.
 
Listening to his assessment of the second goal we lost to thistle in league game and he's right, if anyone saw delle alli scoring for spurs the other night there the defenders were like statues when he nipped into score.


That's the kinda thing we tend to do so it'll need to be addressed on Saturday.
 
DylanGer said:
You are out on a limb there. The fact is the 2 central players in our preferred system often get overran -we have a tendency and I can't work out if it is accident or design to lose control of games-every team has carved us open at times-better teams than Hearts and Dundee would have hurt us at Ibrox.

We are very uneven-the good the bad and indifferent emerging in most games-he admits himself we are losing soft goals. We have key personnel we are not sure how they will fit into the 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1).

Of course there is time to fix or develop things but it is not as you say it is-it remains unconvincing overall but with signs of promise.

Celtic are a team who are potent-effective call it what you want but they tend to kill games off and as such knock the life out of teams. They are not unbeatable though and they have struggled at times-us at home should be their biggest challenge-we should be able to set up to deliver that-if you right then it shouldn't even be a question. But I think you know it is and a a rather large and dangerous one for the manager.
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Every team has carved us open eh? Isn't the stat something like 11 shots against us all season?

Now, the fact that 8 of these were goals is a concern but almost all of them have been individual errors.

Please reply with 7 paragraphs about why that's wrong please? :)
 
Hobjo said:
Every team has carved us open eh? Isn't the stat something like 11 shots against us all season?

Now, the fact that 8 of these were goals is a concern but almost all of them have been individual errors.

Please reply with 7 paragraphs about why that's wrong please? :)
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You never answered the key question.

Hearts and Dundee missed sitters-Dundee dominated the start of the second half. We lose control of games and we are losing goals. That stat doesn't include openings where teams take the wrong option and don't shoot.
 
DylanGer said:
He didn't clearly know his stuff last season-setting teams up is a basic so spare us the it wasn't his team guff.
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I thought it was pretty clear him saying - ok squad, show me you deserve to be here and are capable of playing my style. Which they didn't and weren't.
RFC#1Scotty said:
Clearly you weren't paying attention, Pedro didn't set up the team to play any other way, he done so to test the players under his style of play and they proved they weren't good enough thus the reason they were replaced by better players.

Fact is you're comparing Rangers off a 5-1 defeat, how can you when those players did not play for Rangers back then? It's stupidity if you ask me, only the unwise would attempt such a thing.
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Edit: Just spotted this - agreed 100%
 
DylanGer said:
You never answered the key question.

Hearts and Dundee missed sitters-Dundee dominated the start of the second half. We lose control of games and we are losing goals. That stat doesn't include openings where teams take the wrong option and don't shoot.
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Same games, we also missed sitters, and had one incorrectly chopped off.

I've commented a few times on posts highlighting other teams missing sitters, but neglecting to mention our own. It's picking and choosing moments from games to show us in a poor light, while ignoring positive aspects of our play that haven't ended up with a goal.
 
Butcher6 said:
So against these sides it was the refs fault ffs is that what we are resorting to now.

Hibs game apart the others we should be winning and even in the Hibs game the manager for me showed a complete lack of tactical nous and we didn't tighten up at all and the game was gone.
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Yes ffs, if you couldn't see that you are clearly blind. Try telling me that if Partick Thistle went down to 10 men they would've got back into the game when it was 1-0. Notice how their player sent off 2nd half it changed the face of the game? Oh how convenient for you to ignore that fact.
 
RFC#1Scotty said:
Yes ffs, if you couldn't see that you are clearly blind. Try telling me that if Partick Thistle went down to 10 men they would've got back into the game when it was 1-0. Notice how their player sent off 2nd half it changed the face of the game? Oh how convenient for you to ignore that fact.
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We should be fucking beating Partick thistle even if they had 12 men ffs.

I honestly can't believe you are trying to justify not beating Partick because they had 11 men they hadn't won a game all season.
 
RFC#1Scotty said:
We were... where do people get your brains from?
Doesn't hide the fact that if a player goes in dangerously they SHOULD be sent off.
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On Friday they came back and were winning the game have you forgot about that.

We should be beating them 11 vs 11 we couldn't over 2 games that's a fact that should worry you.
 
Butcher6 said:
On Friday they came back and were winning the game have you forgot about that.

We should be beating them 11 vs 11 we couldn't over 2 games that's a fact that should worry you.
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Notice how you ignore the fact that Rangers were 1-0 up and that player should have been sent off in the first half for the tackle on Ryan Jack with a dangerous tackle which he later apologised for? Had that player been sent off there was no way they were coming back.

I also stated clearly that whilst Rangers should have controlled the game better in the second half it doesn't change the very fact that the referee is there for a reason and yes things like that can change games.

I don't disagree with the fact that Rangers should be beating teams with 11 men on the park, but to excuse incidents like that like they don't exist is inexcusable in itself, what about the decision at the end of the game that SHOULD have been a penalty to Rangers? Are all these decisions just to be ignored then? SO we may as well not have a referee, let's scrap referees from football then, because that's the attitude.
 
I like Pedro's pressers and always give them a watch when im up the road after work.

They're a helluva more intersting than opening a thread, any thread, and seeing Buthcer6 and Dylan littering it with the same chat over and over and over and over and over.

Jesus lads, we get it, you dont have to keep posting the same stuff every effin day.
 
Well it's going to be very harsh to judge Pedro purely based off this one game given we know how strong Celtic's attack are, but I think Rangers should do well.
 
TinyRick said:
Same games, we also missed sitters, and had one incorrectly chopped off.

I've commented a few times on posts highlighting other teams missing sitters, but neglecting to mention our own. It's picking and choosing moments from games to show us in a poor light, while ignoring positive aspects of our play that haven't ended up with a goal.
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Us missing sitters has nothing to do with it.

The point is controlling the game-you can't control the game 100% we all know that but we lose control for too long and too often.
 
DylanGer said:
You never answered the key question.

Hearts and Dundee missed sitters-Dundee dominated the start of the second half. We lose control of games and we are losing goals. That stat doesn't include openings where teams take the wrong option and don't shoot.
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There's no key question in your post mate. Not one question mark I can see.

There's some merit in what you say - yes we do lose control of games for spells and, I'd argue, individual errors have cost us cheap goals. I'm not hiding from that but I am absolutely adamant that you hide from the rest of the picture which is a vastly improved but still new and improvING team.

It is only September after some massive squad changes and some hiccups have occurred (some luck, some self inflicted, one absolutely dreadful result). None of that is inconsistent with a new team. But I'll say it again, we really should be 2 off the top, I'll maybe concede 4 off the top for people who really beleive Hibs were the better team before Jack went off (not a chance but I'm a bit pissed and being very magnanimous). We're in a cup semi, we've had a harder start than last year and we're better off points wise and goal diff.

It's a very, very determined man that can still waffle his way out of denying or just ignoring this.

*waits with sad resignation*
 
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