People comparing Clement to Beale at 2-0

Completely disagree. The players will rightfully get the lions share of the blame because this collapse is annual, in fact these same players have collapsed twice. I think you're mistaking 'free pass' for 'willing to give him time'.

Agreed. Sounds familiar..

Have you seen posts saying he's got all of the above correct recently? I haven't seen one.

The players deserve the lions share of the blame. I think there's universal agreement on that.

But when you see "what else can the manager do" posts, maybe not pick Tom Lawrence to get eaten alive by Celtic for the second time in just over a month when Stevie Wonder could see it would never ever work.

Clement gets time because he's more than earned it and shown more than enough to justify it IMO. But the mistakes he's made since the last international break are alarming.
 
Barely post on the subject of the players or manager anymore. Pointless exercise because most people are going to one extreme or the other.

The fact is the manager still has my backing. He's taken a group of players that looked miles off it and ran that lot pretty close, whilst winning a cup, in with a shout of another and salvaging a decent run in the EL.

You can't bang on incessantly about how poor this group is and then also not give Clement credit for getting what he has out of them since he's arrived.
 
The players deserve the lions share of the blame. I think there's universal agreement on that.

But when you see "what else can the manager do" posts, maybe not pick Tom Lawrence to get eaten alive by Celtic for the second time in just over a month when Stevie Wonder could see it would never ever work.

Clement gets time because he's more than earned it and shown more than enough to justify it IMO. But the mistakes he's made since the last international break are alarming.
Maybe Lawrence was fitter on the day than the alternatives?
 
Too many wee wanks in here desperate to "be right" and "I told you so". I'm convinced some of them are gutted we won. Fucking arseholes. Support the team at any score and any time. We can always find a way. Give up and what's the point. Go and give up at life then. Idiots.
I have thought for some time,there are people on here that would rather be able to
Say “I told you so” than be happy with a rangers win
 
sadly actual Rangers fans, helped and goaded by Timposters on here by joining in, have made this place so toxic to even visit.

absolute fucking bipolar on here.

can't believe how much my mental health has improved by not even watching the last two games nor visiting or posting much on here.

fed up repeating myself, done it since the end of days with Gio, but I finally hope people know what actually needs done and its not clearing out the managers office again.
I usually avoid match threads and chill in the Lounge watching the game, it's a much better experience.
 
But when you see "what else can the manager do" posts, maybe not pick Tom Lawrence to get eaten alive by Celtic for the second time in just over a month when Stevie Wonder could see it would never ever work.

Clement gets time because he's more than earned it and shown more than enough to justify it IMO. But the mistakes he's made since the last international break are alarming.
And it was universally agreed that selecting Lawrence was wrong. I agree that it would be ideal if he got every single call right, but he won't unfortunately.

And coincidentally it's came at a time when this squad has collapsed for the 2nd time this season.

The ones that are the loudest about doubting Clement seem to make up these bs narratives there's a section of the support arguing he hasn't made any mistakes. It's bizarre.

The players deservedly getting the lions share of the blame doesn't equate to no one noticing Clement picking the wrong team away to the scum
 
To many of our fans think football is like Fifa and expect instant success. I have questioned some of Clemens decisions recently but I don't want him sacked, fact is he took over a team of players that were poor, injuries have then made that group even poorer, he needs time to implement his ideas with the players he feels can carry out those plans
 
How anyone can come for the manager to that extent is beyond me, yes he has made mistakes and I have not agreed with some of his team selections but he has had both arms and one leg tied behind his back for most of the season.

He has been a victim of his own success from November to February, by getting more out of this squad of players than any of us had thought possible.

I know it is not in our DNA to make excuses, but for the crucial part of the season we have been without Yilmaz, Sima, Cortes, Diomande & Danilo who are all crucial to the way the manager wants to play. Since Killie we have not had a single game where the first 4 mentioned have all been available for selection. Compare and contrast that to when that lot had Hatate and Carter-Vickers out, it was all you heard about and how they would come good when they had their key players back, and they were right.

I seen a stat last night that only 5 of our outfield players have played in more than half of our matches this season (per 90 mins), Tav, Goldson, Souttar, Lundstram and Dessers. Five of the most maligned players this season, but is it any wonder their performances have fallen off a cliff and they look dead on their feet? Before the uber-negative RSC jump on me, no that does not fully exonerate the performances in Dingwall and Dundee, but when we are relying on a supporting cast of Wright, Dowell, Barisic etc and we are having to play Sterling and Silva as wingers, I think we can at least cut the manager some slack for the lack of style and drop in performances and results.

It is absolutely imperative that we sign younger, fitter and most importantly better players going into next season. I have seen enough from the manager to give me belief, however I do think the Cup Final is imperative to keep the fans on board.
 
People were openly asking the club to sack the manager and appoint McInnes but it's Follow Follow and the match thread so no point dwelling on sheer lunacy.

Do you want the manager sacked?
I have to be honest and say I haven’t seen anything from him at all that installs confidence in his abilities apart from one result at Betis. He has lost every single Old Firm, not only that he has been badly shown up tactically in every one, he was exposed even worse against Benfica when the entire nation could see a goal coming for 15 minutes and he did nothing to deter it.
He beat some jobber domestic teams we should be beating every single week and then managed to lose to Motherwell, Ross County and drop points at Dens Park. I also believe his record to this point is worse than that of both Gio and Beale, so why would I be clambering for him to stay ??
 
Too many wee wanks in here desperate to "be right" and "I told you so". I'm convinced some of them are gutted we won. Fucking arseholes. Support the team at any score and any time. We can always find a way. Give up and what's the point. Go and give up at life then. Idiots.
My youngest son, my brother and one of my mates fall into this category
 
I have to be honest and say I haven’t seen anything from him at all that installs confidence in his abilities apart from one result at Betis. He has lost every single Old Firm, not only that he has been badly shown up tactically in every one, he was exposed even worse against Benfica when the entire nation could see a goal coming for 15 minutes and he did nothing to deter it.
He beat some jobber domestic teams we should be beating every single week and then managed to lose to Motherwell, Ross County and drop points at Dens Park. I also believe his record to this point is worse than that of both Gio and Beale, so why would I be clambering for him to stay ??
Because sacking managers every few months is mental.

Thank Christ the board won’t be thinking this way.

He will be given time to build his own team.
 
I have to be honest and say I haven’t seen anything from him at all that installs confidence in his abilities apart from one result at Betis. He has lost every single Old Firm, not only that he has been badly shown up tactically in every one, he was exposed even worse against Benfica when the entire nation could see a goal coming for 15 minutes and he did nothing to deter it.
He beat some jobber domestic teams we should be beating every single week and then managed to lose to Motherwell, Ross County and drop points at Dens Park. I also believe his record to this point is worse than that of both Gio and Beale, so why would I be clambering for him to stay ??
When the opening and closing statements of your point are both lies, then it is hard to expect to be taken seriously.
 
I have to be honest and say I haven’t seen anything from him at all that installs confidence in his abilities apart from one result at Betis. He has lost every single Old Firm, not only that he has been badly shown up tactically in every one, he was exposed even worse against Benfica when the entire nation could see a goal coming for 15 minutes and he did nothing to deter it.
He beat some jobber domestic teams we should be beating every single week and then managed to lose to Motherwell, Ross County and drop points at Dens Park. I also believe his record to this point is worse than that of both Gio and Beale, so why would I be clambering for him to stay ??
Small correction, he did draw an OF game. I'd also argue there's been some mitigating circumstances with the two games at Parkhead, given that we've been down to 10 men with a fair portion of the game left.

Do you think other football operators would take us as a club seriously if we were to part ways with Clement now? Do you think Nils Koppen would be inclined to stay much longer if he saw Clement get his jotters this summer?

My view is that despite his recent flaws, he's had considerable success as a manager in a difficult league and that we need to stay patient and back him.
 
Everything is obvious in hindsight. Lawrence had just come on and done really well in the game prior had he not?
Hindsight? Most posters on here said before the game it was the wrong team. Lawrence was woeful against them only a few weeks prior and we needed legs in midfield.

He has made the same mistake in 3 old firm games in a row. You can forgive the first one as a learning curve but to go into the next 2 with a midfield 2 then that's just really poor management as Celtics 3 just dominate our 2 on every occasion. To also not have someone all over McGregor again was just asking to lose.

Let's see if he has learned come the final but when he said after that he wouldn't have changed his team in hindsight then I have my doubts.
 
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Small correction, he did draw an OF game. I'd also argue there's been some mitigating circumstances with the two games at Parkhead, given that we've been down to 10 men with a fair portion of the game left.

Do you think other football operators would take us as a club seriously if we were to part ways with Clement now? Do you think Nils Koppen would be inclined to stay much longer if he saw Clement get his jotters this summer?

My view is that despite his recent flaws, he's had considerable success as a manager in a difficult league and that we need to stay patient and back him.
We have went 2-0 down in every old firm game when we had 11 players on the park. Lets not pretend we lost because of red cards.

Not sure what success he has had in the league tbh. He has gained 1 point on a team that had a mini collapse and all in actually has a worse record than the previous manager.
 
There must of been a hell of a lot of regulars using seat sub last night. There was some amount of throbbers sitting around my seat last night who I have never seen before and the pish they where spouting was ridiculous.
 
Too many wee wanks in here desperate to "be right" and "I told you so". I'm convinced some of them are gutted we won. Fucking arseholes. Support the team at any score and any time. We can always find a way. Give up and what's the point. Go and give up at life then. Idiots.
This place is full of mentally challengeds. I've said it for years, stick an annual membership fee and that should get rid of them (then again, they're sooooo obsessed they'd probably pay it :rolleyes:
 
The players deserve the lions share of the blame. I think there's universal agreement on that.

But when you see "what else can the manager do" posts, maybe not pick Tom Lawrence to get eaten alive by Celtic for the second time in just over a month when Stevie Wonder could see it would never ever work.

Clement gets time because he's more than earned it and shown more than enough to justify it IMO. But the mistakes he's made since the last international break are alarming.
Alarming, stop been so dramatic .

The injuries have killed us and not just because we have players missing , the ones that need to play every week cannot maintain performances week in week out.
 
Why? That is now consistently happening in our games now. We have kept 1 clean sheet in about 10 games. We had no shape or game plan at all in that first half.

There is every right to criticise, and coming back to win 5-2 is only papering over the cracks.
He’ll have had one training session maybe lasting two hours between Saturday and last night to work on shape with another new centre half pairing and another new midfield combination due to injuries and suspensions.

We were hardly going to come out like Fabio Capello’s Milan.

Add to that it seemed like players did whatever they wanted to do in the first half until they got a bollocking at half time.
 
Hindsight? Most posters on here said before the game it was the wrong team. Lawrence was woeful against them only a few weeks prior and we needed legs in midfield.

He has made the same mistake in 3 old firm games in a row. You can forgive the first one as a learning curve but to go into the next 2 with a midfield 2 then that's just really poor management as Celtics 3 just dominate our 2 on every occasion. To also not have someone all over McGregor again was just asking to lose.

Let's see if he has learned come the final but when he said after that he wouldn't have changed his team in hindsight then I have my doubts.
We had to win. Going more attacking makes sense to me.
 
Beale played the most boring football i've ever watched at Rangers. Half the time i was flicking through my phone and glancing up it was that bad. At least under Clement when we had brought in new players and had less injuries we looked a decent side who didnt give up. Injuries rightly or wrongly have ruined our season.
 
It's getting really fkn boring now.

Has Clement made mistakes, yes. Does he have some of the tamest, most unreliable Rangers who have ever been, absolutely.

Learn where the problem lies
You’ve been around long enough to know you’re banging your head against a brick wall, I had a guy last week calling me a “surrender monkey” because I said the manager need time to dump the dross and bring in quality players. :))
 
When the opening and closing statements of your point are both lies, then it is hard to expect to be taken seriously.
I apologise for the old firm comment, however please see the below.

After their first 25 league games at Rangers FC - Michael Beale had a better record than Philippe Clement

Beale
19 wins
4 draws
2 defeats
61 points

Clement
19 wins
3 defeats
3 draws
60 points
 
We have went 2-0 down in every old firm game when we had 11 players on the park. Lets not pretend we lost because of red cards.

Not sure what success he has had in the league tbh. He has gained 1 point on a team that had a mini collapse and all in actually has a worse record than the previous manager.
I'm not blaming it on the reds, I'm just pointing out that individual mistakes from Balogun and Lundstram have killed our ability to salvage anything from those two games as the manager has had to alter the system.

His league record is comparable to Beale's, but Beale had the luxury of getting to build his team. Clement hasn't had a summer window yet and I'll be fully judging him next season when hopefully he's brought in players with better mentality to play for Rangers.
 
The obvious alternative was playing right wing. The other alternative replaced him and played better than him.
Is it an obvious alternative to play Lawrence on the right wing. He's firmly a central and left sided player.
He also would have lasted less than 5 minutes against Maeda as far as challenging ,containment and tracking back covering for Tav never mind forward play.
I'm speculating that's why Sterling was out there and that Clement was hoping for at best greater ball distribution from Lawrence than gave.
Why Lawrence was picked.Given that he's not fully fit nor has had a consistent run.PC if he has hair would have been pulling it out with putting this squad together for a team.
Both right sided players on the bench up until that time we're hardly setting the heather on fire either and if he'd have started with McCausland or Wright then be would have been slated by some too.
 
Is it an obvious alternative to play Lawrence on the right wing. He's firmly a central and left sided player.
He also would have lasted less than 5 minutes against Maeda as far as challenging ,containment and tracking back covering for Tav never mind forward play.
I'm speculating that's why Sterling was out there and that Clement was hoping for at best greater ball distribution from Lawrence than gave.
Why Lawrence was picked.Given that he's not fully fit nor has had a consistent run.PC if he has hair would have been pulling it out with putting this squad together for a team.
Both right sided players on the bench up until that time we're hardly setting the heather on fire either and if he'd have started with McCausland or Wright then be would have been slated by some too.

The alternative to Lawrence was playing right wing.

Not that the alternative was playing Lawrence right wing.

Lawrence should've been nowhere near that game on Saturday.
 
I apologise for the old firm comment, however please see the below.

After their first 25 league games at Rangers FC - Michael Beale had a better record than Philippe Clement

Beale
19 wins
4 draws
2 defeats
61 points

Clement
19 wins
3 defeats
3 draws
60 points
Beale had a better Rangers team that was 9 behind when he arrived. His new manager bounce was impressive, points wise, but we were terrible to watch and we still lost to celtic when it mattered in all 3 competitions.
 
The alternative to Lawrence was playing right wing.

Not that the alternative was playing Lawrence right wing.

Lawrence should've been nowhere near that game on Saturday.
Ideally he shouldn't have. Ideally Sterling would have been in the middle.
We just didn't have an on form right sided player who was up to either attacking, containment or covering imo.
McCausland and Wright starting would have been a weakness at that time.Young McCausland was getting a regular doing on here as was Wright with some justification.
Would you have started them ?
Sterling was there initially due the threat from Maeda and to cover for Tav particularly in the early part of the game imo.
 
The wider concern for me isn't Clement it's this culture we're getting attached to of torpedoing plans and managers on a whim. A year, 10 months, now 6 months for Clement.

No mid season appointment is going to come without turbulence, you do it because you're in a bad spot, the players and manager are then a marriage of convenience until he can maker serious changes.

We can't just burn through managers constantly and the idea that we'd even let this group of players see another one off just is just ridiculous.

I still don't see how you can go on about serial losers, awful recruitment and general quality of the squad but then expect any manager to work wonders with them? Laziness off the ball, conceding first, slow starts goes back to the Gerrard era, none of this is new.

We are in danger of becoming unmanageable. Clement and Koppen have been here just over 6 months - we must give them full backing and time.
 
This place is full of mentally challengeds. I've said it for years, stick an annual membership fee and that should get rid of them (then again, they're sooooo obsessed they'd probably pay it :rolleyes:
They couldn't afford it on their slum, drug fuelled benefits. I almost feel sorry for them, then I think, nah %^*& that. Cretins.
 
I apologise for the old firm comment, however please see the below.

After their first 25 league games at Rangers FC - Michael Beale had a better record than Philippe Clement

Beale
19 wins
4 draws
2 defeats
61 points

Clement
19 wins
3 defeats
3 draws
60 points
Beale's Rangers performed well in the league last season, however we had nothing to play for and there was no pressure due to Celtic's consistency. He was then given free reign with the Club's transfer budget in the Summer and made us worse, and Clement has been left to deal with the mess he left behind.

Clement also has one trophy in the bag and an opportunity to add another next week, as well as getting us to the last 16 of EL.

It is grossly unfair on PC to even compare him to Beale.
 
I apologise for the old firm comment, however please see the below.

After their first 25 league games at Rangers FC - Michael Beale had a better record than Philippe Clement

Beale
19 wins
4 draws
2 defeats
61 points

Clement
19 wins
3 defeats
3 draws
60 points

Clement - 2 finals, won 1 already.

Beale - 1 final, lost.
 
I'm not blaming it on the reds, I'm just pointing out that individual mistakes from Balogun and Lundstram have killed our ability to salvage anything from those two games as the manager has had to alter the system.

His league record is comparable to Beale's, but Beale had the luxury of getting to build his team. Clement hasn't had a summer window yet and I'll be fully judging him next season when hopefully he's brought in players with better mentality to play for Rangers.
It was his system that seen us 2-0 down in those 3 games. Maybe the forced change actually helped and stopped it being 5+?
 
I for one was happy to hear his presser after the game got little more insight with that he will build a much better and resilient team
Think it was Alex Ferguson that said you can only really get proper angry one or two times a season or it loses it's effect. Clement has had to keep as much of this broken squad together for as long as possible. Fortunately that's now nearing the end and he can speak a bit more freely.
 
Not really sure how anyone can criticise his tactics or system right now.

We don't have a squad with the ability or speed to play out from the back or fast high pressing football, that squad isn't very fit or robust thanks to the previous pre-season and half the players that are remotely capable of that style of play are injured. Every manager would struggle to get his style of play across in that situation.

Not only does the team right now look nothing like his previous sides, it looks identical to Beale, Gio and Gerrard sides when faced with the slightest bit of pressure. I thought after everything we have seen the last few years everyone would be in agreement that the players are the issue, not the manager.
 
The wider concern for me isn't Clement it's this culture we're getting attached to of torpedoing plans and managers on a whim. A year, 10 months, now 6 months for Clement.

No mid season appointment is going to come without turbulence, you do it because you're in a bad spot, the players and manager are then a marriage of convenience until he can maker serious changes.

We can't just burn through managers constantly and the idea that we'd even let this group of players see another one off just is just ridiculous.

I still don't see how you can go on about serial losers, awful recruitment and general quality of the squad but then expect any manager to work wonders with them? Laziness off the ball, conceding first, slow starts goes back to the Gerrard era, none of this is new.

We are in danger of becoming unmanageable. Clement and Koppen have been here just over 6 months - we must give them full backing and time.
I think fans forget that we said Beale had set us back the best part of a decade, and every thread on here talked about the next manager / DOF being a long term project! The guys been in the door 6 months, qualified out our group from Europe when we were looking to be out, won a cup, got us to a final and taken the league down to the last 2 games of the season! Had you offered me that in November I’d have thought we actually did hire Harry Potter!

He’s made a few dreadful decisions in team selection but he has also made some brave ones (ie dropping Goldson). Some of his subs have been poor but others have been inspiring and a lot earlier than Beale or Gio would make changes. The greatest managers in the world make mistakes with line ups, have poor spells and have transfer howlers. He’s not the greatest manager in the world but then if he were he would not be here!

And what will be even more difficult for some on here to accept is I think we need to stick by him if we don’t win the league next season either! This idea of “if he doesn’t win x game it’s over” is nonsense. With the windfall the scum will get for CL next season they will start as absolute odds on to win the treble. They won’t (I’m sure of that!) but next season is all about rebuilding our foundations. Get a strong backbone to the team, overhaul the training, overhaul the medical squad, overhaul the youth system. Don’t disgrace ourselves in CL qualifiers but expect to drop to the EL. Again don’t disgrace ourselves there but no expectation we will qualify. Keep within touching distance of the league by Christmas and in both the cups. Add some other players in the January and put up a fight. Learn how to go to the piggery and not look like a rabbit in headlights. Do all that and regardless of any silverware that’s “success” for me as it’s the building blocks for the decade ahead. No more quick fixes (Mciniss FFS!).
 
I think fans forget that we said Beale had set us back the best part of a decade, and every thread on here talked about the next manager / DOF being a long term project! The guys been in the door 6 months, qualified out our group from Europe when we were looking to be out, won a cup, got us to a final and taken the league down to the last 2 games of the season! Had you offered me that in November I’d have thought we actually did hire Harry Potter!

He’s made a few dreadful decisions in team selection but he has also made some brave ones (ie dropping Goldson). Some of his subs have been poor but others have been inspiring and a lot earlier than Beale or Gio would make changes. The greatest managers in the world make mistakes with line ups, have poor spells and have transfer howlers. He’s not the greatest manager in the world but then if he were he would not be here!

And what will be even more difficult for some on here to accept is I think we need to stick by him if we don’t win the league next season either! This idea of “if he doesn’t win x game it’s over” is nonsense. With the windfall the scum will get for CL next season they will start as absolute odds on to win the treble. They won’t (I’m sure of that!) but next season is all about rebuilding our foundations. Get a strong backbone to the team, overhaul the training, overhaul the medical squad, overhaul the youth system. Don’t disgrace ourselves in CL qualifiers but expect to drop to the EL. Again don’t disgrace ourselves there but no expectation we will qualify. Keep within touching distance of the league by Christmas and in both the cups. Add some other players in the January and put up a fight. Learn how to go to the piggery and not look like a rabbit in headlights. Do all that and regardless of any silverware that’s “success” for me as it’s the building blocks for the decade ahead. No more quick fixes (Mciniss FFS!).
I completely agree.

I've not really read any negative opinion about Clement that has any depth to it, it's just reactionary based on poor form.

I don't tend to bother if folk have a different opinion from me but it amazes me people can't see the players are the common denominator in that past 3-4 years and the serial title winning manager that's been here 6 months isn't the problem.
 
No one is claiming he's perfect but far too many are willing to give him a free pass and lump 100% of the blame onto the players as a comfort blanket for the collapse in the past 2 months.

When you compare the manager in the past 2 months to his first five months, it's night and day stuff.

Poor starting line ups, waiting too long to make required subs, putting square pegs in round holes rather than adjusting formation/tactics to suit what he's got, storming off in a huff because Don Cowie did a number on him, eccentric quotes in pressers and match interviews.

Every one of us wants him to be successful and he's a massive upgrade on Beale obviously but ignoring glaring failings that are staring us in the face isn't doing us any favours.

Again, this doesn't mean I want him bagged or out the door any time soon. But he's making mistakes he simply wasn't making for five months.
This post is far far too sensible.
It'll never catch on.
 
Yep Beale managed to sideline players who could have contributed like kamara and wasted a good budget in the summer.

Clement is due some criticism but you have to try and be rationale - as things stand he's won a cup, has a chance of a second, and has closed the league gap since he came in.

That doesn't take away the league collapse of recent weeks and the failings in team selection, but it does warrant a bit of pause in some of the rash opinions.

Let's see how he does with a chance to bring in his own players - I trust him more than the last manager anyway.
Beale had many, many faults but the Kamara situation was 100% not one. Kamara had checked out long before Beale arrived and Beale gave him plenty of chances, in each of those he was nowhere near the Kamara of old. Beale even publicly praised him when he first arrived, I assume in an attempt to man manage him back to some sort of change in attitude/form. Perfect example, Napoli at home... watch Kamara when he was brought on at 82mins when we were somehow still in the game at 0-1 when down to 10 men. He was worse than another man down and directly involved in us losing the 2 late goals through lack of fight/effort and not tracking.
 
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