Sterling - “I don’t know if the belief is there…”

brain said:
The collapse happened when he was injured though, that's the point. There was near enough consensus that his injury was a key reason for it. We were in a rut by the time he returned and couldn’t turn it around. Point is that you can't blame his mentality for the dramatic loss of form that season.
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Pretty daft consensus when we picked up more points with him in the stand rather than the park. Not saying he was to blame but you need to be fair and accurate with your remarks. We picked up less points with him in the team than without, that's not opinion that's fact.

You also made mention of the minutes Lundstram played in the 21/22 collapse in an earlier post (I think it was you anyways). Obviously referring to the draws against Ross County and Aberdeen and defeat to Celtic. He actually gave the ball away against Ross County with a stupid long range pass which allowed them to get a corner and equalise in injury time. You also failed to mention the draws against Dundee United and Motherwell and defeat to Celtic, which were just as damaging as the other three. He started all of them and I think played 90 in all three. Five of those points lost from winning positions as opposed to four from the earlier three games, eventual gap at end of season was four.

With respect, what you've done is chosen a stance then picked the facts that suit that argument rather than consider all of them.

I'm not blaming any individual players but in the 19/20, 21/22, 18/19 to a lesser extent and this year (unless there's another twist) we've had the chance to go out there and grab the league and bottled it in each with some players being there for more than one of those seasons. You can't blame fans for being absolutely fed up with this.
 
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Clements post match interview after Dundee wasn't a true reflection on how that game went. This is where this all started from. If Clement is going to go down that route there is no point in allowing players to do subsequent interviews unless he want them to mislead the fan base with views they don't hold and also views that don't reflect the game we all just stood & watched & that player even took part in.
 
Bleedsroyalblue said:
Pretty daft consensus when we picked up more points with him in the stand rather than the park. Not saying he was to blame but you need to be fair and accurate with your remarks. We picked up less points with him in the team than without, that's not opinion that's fact.

You also made mention of the minutes Lundstram played in the 21/22 collapse in an earlier post (I think it was you anyways). Obviously referring to the draws against Ross County and Aberdeen and defeat to Celtic. He actually gave the ball away against Ross County with a stupid long range pass which allowed them to get a corner and equalise in injury time. You also failed to mention the draws against Dundee United and Motherwell and defeat to Celtic, which were just as damaging as the other three. He started all of them and I think played 90 in all three. Five of those points lost from winning positions as opposed to four from the earlier three games, eventual gap at end of season was four.

With respect, what you've done is chosen a stance then picked the facts that suit that argument rather than consider all of them.

I'm not blaming any individual players but in the 19/20, 21/22, 18/19 to a lesser extent and this year (unless there's another twist) we've had the chance to go out there and grab the league and bottled it in each with some players being there for more than one of those seasons. You can't blame fans for being absolutely fed up with this.
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In both cases, it's the initial collapse that is by far the most important. That why I highlighted those games. The narrative has been that we can't handle being in front. By the time Tav returned that season we had gone from 1 in front to 4 behind. Doesn't absolve them from blame in either season, but it does blow a hole in the theory that it's the bottle of those individuals that has repeatedly been the primary cause of loss of form at key times. Returning to the squad to turn around form is a different proposition.
 
brain said:
In both cases, it's the initial collapse that is by far the most important. That why I highlighted those games. The narrative has been that we can't handle being in front. By the time Tav returned that season we had gone from 1 in front to 4 behind. Doesn't absolve them from blame in either season, but it does blow a hole in the theory that it's the bottle of those individuals that has repeatedly been the primary cause of loss of form at key times. Returning to the squad to turn around form is a different proposition.
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We weren't one in front at the winter break from memory in 19/20. We were two behind with a game in hand. Facts are important. A reason why fans go to these players is because they're constants especially in the case of Tavernier and Goldson. We lost more points from winning positions when Tavernier played post winter break in 19/20 (five) than when he didn't (three). Losing points from a winning position is a bigger collapse than simply losing points.

Indeed if you go further back that season we got ourselves top of the league then fucked it the very next game away to Hearts, who gave away the goal that day with a ridiculous bit of play? Tavernier

As I've said there's a multitude of players and reasons for each collapse. But all you keep doing is picking and choosing the facts that suit your view rather than all of them. Two games that seriously cost us in 21/22 season were Ross County away (where Lundstram had a big part to play in their equaliser, albeit McGregor would have to take the blame overall) and the Motherwell draw where Lundstram played the full ninety, got absolutely rinsed down the left for their first then a Goldson, Tavernier and McGregor combo sold the equaliser. Motherwell especially as Celtic had dropped points in the early kick off and we had went in at half time two goals ahead.
 
BlueSteish said:
How this has changed within a matter of weeks is baffling. Something must have happened behind the scenes.
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Nothing has happened behind the scenes it's just the same old players doing the same old things combined with guys like Dessers who are just really pope footballers
 
Some people are getting carried away with Sterling. He's physical and aggressive, but folk wanting him to become a fixture in central midfield are way off it, IMO. He's a fullback and, given Tavernier's obviously deficiencies, the boy could definitely have played more at right back this season to rest Tav. If we can't play him at RB in home games against the bottom 6 clubs, you'd need to wonder why.
 
SuperJackButland said:
Been brainwashed by all your wee timmy pals aye. Utter idiot. We certainly don't need 'fans' like u.
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Don't have any Timmy mates. You try and believe in your own wee mind we didn't win the league because Tav, goldson and co. didn't have 50k fans cracking up every bad pass they made week on week out if it keeps you happy
 
julian candy said:
The referencing of Van Dijk is pretty fucking weird it has to be said.

We'd all be pointing and laughing if it was a manager from another club.
GodStruth said:
All he was doing was referencing how a more experienced and media-savvy player approached a post-match interview in a pressure situation. A perfectly reasonable point given the question he was asked

Can't help but think folks are making a mountain out of a molehill with this
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Liverpool captain Virgil van Dijk questioned his side's desire to win the Premier League after a damaging defeat against Merseyside rivals Everton.
With four games left, Liverpool are now hoping for slip-ups from leaders Arsenal, who lie three points clear, and champions Manchester City.
Defeat at Goodison Park was their second in three games as their season threatens to peter out.
"Do they really want to win the league?" asked Van Dijk.
Goals in each half from defender Jarrad Branthwaite and striker Dominic Calvert-Lewin set the Toffees on their way to their first home victory in the league over Liverpool since October 2010.
It was another setback after being beaten 1-0 at home by Crystal Palace 10 days ago as they missed the opportunity to go back level on points with the Gunners.
A scathing Van Dijk told Sky Sports: "If you play like this overall in the game and not win any challenges and give the referee an opportunity to give a free-kick away then we have no chance to win the title.
"Very disappointed in so many ways. Everyone has to look in the mirror and look at their own performance and think if they gave everything.
"It is a tough one and obviously we have to do better against a side near the relegation [positions] it is time to focus.
"If you play like today we have no chance to consider ourselves in the title race."
 
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alza75 said:
Don't have any Timmy mates. You try and believe in your own wee mind we didn't win the league because Tav, goldson and co. didn't have 50k fans cracking up every bad pass they made week on week out if it keeps you happy
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Your grammar and punctuation is a tad Timmy like, tbh :))
 
paphosranger said:
julian candy said:
The referencing of Van Dijk is pretty fucking weird it has to be said.

We'd all be pointing and laughing if it was a manager from another club.

Liverpool captain Virgil van Dijk questioned his side's desire to win the Premier League after a damaging defeat against Merseyside rivals Everton.
With four games left, Liverpool are now hoping for slip-ups from leaders Arsenal, who lie three points clear, and champions Manchester City.
Defeat at Goodison Park was their second in three games as their season threatens to peter out.
"Do they really want to win the league?" asked Van Dijk.
Goals in each half from defender Jarrad Branthwaite and striker Dominic Calvert-Lewin set the Toffees on their way to their first home victory in the league over Liverpool since October 2010.
It was another setback after being beaten 1-0 at home by Crystal Palace 10 days ago as they missed the opportunity to go back level on points with the Gunners.
A scathing Van Dijk told Sky Sports: "If you play like this overall in the game and not win any challenges and give the referee an opportunity to give a free-kick away then we have no chance to win the title.
"Very disappointed in so many ways. Everyone has to look in the mirror and look at their own performance and think if they gave everything.
"It is a tough one and obviously we have to do better against a side near the relegation [positions] it is time to focus.
"If you play like today we have no chance to consider ourselves in the title race."
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Hopefully Sterling enjoys training this morning. Sitting there with a big smug grin on him. :D
 
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Salah and Robertson were unrecognisable as quality footballers last night, Salah's head is full of oil, Robertson has peaked and heading down the way.
Sterling's quote might just be the kick up the arse we badly needed.
 
alza75 said:
Don't have any Timmy mates. You try and believe in your own wee mind we didn't win the league because Tav, goldson and co. didn't have 50k fans cracking up every bad pass they made week on week out if it keeps you happy
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You might not have any rattler friends, but you’ve certainly bought into their propaganda on social media.

Either that, or you’re just a fu*king halfwit.
 
paphosranger said:
julian candy said:
The referencing of Van Dijk is pretty fucking weird it has to be said.

We'd all be pointing and laughing if it was a manager from another club.

Liverpool captain Virgil van Dijk questioned his side's desire to win the Premier League after a damaging defeat against Merseyside rivals Everton.
With four games left, Liverpool are now hoping for slip-ups from leaders Arsenal, who lie three points clear, and champions Manchester City.
Defeat at Goodison Park was their second in three games as their season threatens to peter out.
"Do they really want to win the league?" asked Van Dijk.
Goals in each half from defender Jarrad Branthwaite and striker Dominic Calvert-Lewin set the Toffees on their way to their first home victory in the league over Liverpool since October 2010.
It was another setback after being beaten 1-0 at home by Crystal Palace 10 days ago as they missed the opportunity to go back level on points with the Gunners.
A scathing Van Dijk told Sky Sports: "If you play like this overall in the game and not win any challenges and give the referee an opportunity to give a free-kick away then we have no chance to win the title.
"Very disappointed in so many ways. Everyone has to look in the mirror and look at their own performance and think if they gave everything.
"It is a tough one and obviously we have to do better against a side near the relegation [positions] it is time to focus.
"If you play like today we have no chance to consider ourselves in the title race."
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No doubt some no mark journalist will be scrambling to put this to Mr Clement. Hopefully the manager takes it on board and in future doesn’t give them an inch and gives them a bland “nothing to see here” response.
 
Don Vito said:
No doubt some no mark journalist will be scrambling to put this to Mr Clement. Hopefully the manager takes it on board and in future doesn’t give them an inch and gives them a bland “nothing to see here” response.
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Doubt he'll give a sh*t to be honest. Van Dijk is very experienced in dealing with the press, especially the English press, and gets his point across well to be fair to him. Sterling's comments, and this is not a criticism of him, were the same but put across totally differently. If that makes sense?
 
I would have been hoping he was playing mind games with the opposition but we can all see the collapse in performance and endeavour within the team.

Big Phil should be kicking ass, cuddling or whatever it takes to get to get the response we need.
 
IsaacClarke said:
Doubt he'll give a sh*t to be honest. Van Dijk is very experienced in dealing with the press, especially the English press, and gets his point across well to be fair to him. Sterling's comments, and this is not a criticism of him, were the same but put across totally differently. If that makes sense?
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We might appreciate the nuances of each player’s statements, my point is that in giving a reference to the conduct of a player unconnected to Rangers, Clement has given the no marks an opportunity to conflate a nothing issue. Personally I’d rather he had been blander in the response to Sterling’s comments.
It’s all a nonsense really, but that’s what football reporting seems to be these days.
 
Tav winning the ball back for the first goal showed more commitment and desire than we had seen the last few weeks. We need that more from the captain.
 
Don Vito said:
We might appreciate the nuances of each player’s statements, my point is that in giving a reference to the conduct of a player unconnected to Rangers, Clement has given the no marks an opportunity to conflate a nothing issue. Personally I’d rather he had been blander in the response to Sterling’s comments.
It’s all a nonsense really, but that’s what football reporting seems to be these days.
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Exactly, I don't think Clement will care in the slightest if a journalist bring this up. Such a nothing issue no one should ever care about.
 
Van Dijk has said this to cause problems for Clement imo. Lawwell will have been on the phone.
 
alza75 said:
The quote from Tav was inab league program way the season before we won 55.. Could have been against Hamilton, but not 100 % sure.
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He was completely misquoted and that has been used by Celtic supporting pundits in the media for years and repeated by some of our own support, people like you. It's like chinese whispers now.

At no point did Tav say he is a loser who can't play in front of hostile fans and that is the only reason we won 55. This is the type of shite you hear from people like Hugh Keevins and it is completely made up.
 
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