Tav for the own goal

[Growler]

I have been going to Ibrox since I was 14 and honestly mate defending Tav when anybody who has a football head knows he is woeful costing us either loss of possesion in major games or simply getting schooled by speedy wingers and costing us games points etc, is not the way forward for us we desperately need a better full back,not just that a new back line but is without a doubt in all my years following my team one of the worst defenders we have had in terms of the simple common sense defenders need,he is a nice young guy ,would never give the team a bad name by his behaviour ,I agree but for the name of God admit what is staring us in the face

Me neither he has cost us dear over the years ,my opinion and many others.

Mate, you don’t have to land on the side of something being utterly amazing or utterly shite. Nuance exists. This forum forgets that. You’re right about Tav; but for the love of god, provide a balanced opinion. If you’re going to go in on critiquing him, then it helps to also go into just as much detail about the positive aspects to his game.

There is no harm in saying X player gives us Y negatives and Z positives, and on balance Y/Z is better than Z/Y. I feel Tav contributes more positively than he does negatively. Conversely, guys like Jack, Lundstram, Matondo, Davies, Dowell etc do not - that’s why there are many other players higher up the list for me when it comes to being called out.

Sorry for being rational, but it’s the only approach I know. I accept others make calls with their emotions.

 

[Colinstein69]

Tav is terrified of Maeda and never knows whether to get tight or stand off him. It's really as simple as that.

 

[Greggy83]

Tav is terrified of Maeda and never knows whether to get tight or stand off him. It's really as simple as that.

Can believe the space he gave Maeda at the goal. He's terrified to get close to him so stands off and gives him time to do as he likes. Meada is a terrible player aswell, he has pace but that's it

 

[Colinstein69]

Can believe the space he gave Maeda at the goal. He's terrified to get close to him so stands off and gives him time to do as he likes. Meada is a terrible player aswell, he has pace but that's it

His finishing and general end product appears to be his achilles heel, going by his stats. But every time he lines up against us he's major threat going forward and also tracks back and defends well.

 

[JCDarcheville]

Can believe the space he gave Maeda at the goal. He's terrified to get close to him so stands off and gives him time to do as he likes. Meada is a terrible player aswell, he has pace but that's it

Which is why getting tight to Maeda is the wrong thing to do. Tav goes to push the ball there and Maeda could beat him with a single touch and get himself in on goal. His pace means the best way to defend him is to hold position, slow him down and make him %^*& up. He did that with a cross to nobody, which Lundstram inexplicably passed to the bottom corner of the net.

 

[RTD-BEAR]

Diabolical defending .

As a team it was poor all round we had it in there half we played it central 2 of players went for it stopped and ball went between them 2 passed our so it's at maieda poor block then Lundstram

Davies should have been scanning leave it as there was no one running in

Was poor all round

 

[Mr. T.]

When will he learn how to defend a cross ball?

Blame Lundstram all you want for their second but that defending from Tavernier was crap.

And we’ll go again next season with him.

The number of goals they have scored against us at Celtic Park (when we are not actually gifting them) which originate with a ball into the box from the right side of our defence is quite remarkable. So many, in fact, that it can’t be a coincidence.

 

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

As a team it was poor all round we had it in there half we played it central 2 of players went for it stopped and ball went between them 2 passed our so it's at maieda poor block then Lundstram

Davies should have been scanning leave it as there was no one running in

Was poor all round

That was what Maeda does, gets into great positions with little end product, he's a workhorse thats it.
Unfortunately Lundstram made a lady's front bottom of it, he could actually have stopped and did a pirouette on it, he could have left it to Davies (did he get a shout, probably not?)
Making it more laughable on Lundstrams part is he actually tries to blame Collum for impeding him.

 

[Laudrup11Cooper]

Just watching on sky there, why did tav not go across. Yet again he doesn't even attempt to stop the cross.

Fed up with this from him. Yes he scores goals but we need a defender as well.

Probably because Maeda has been living rent free in his head now for 2-3 seasons?

 

[Theoracle]

Just watching on sky there, why did tav not go across. Yet again he doesn't even attempt to stop the cross.

Fed up with this from him. Yes he scores goals but we need a defender as well.

He will learn from this

 

[GovanFront4]

Which is why getting tight to Maeda is the wrong thing to do. Tav goes to push the ball there and Maeda could beat him with a single touch and get himself in on goal. His pace means the best way to defend him is to hold position, slow him down and make him %^*& up. He did that with a cross to nobody, which Lundstram inexplicably passed to the bottom corner of the net.

He didn't need to get touch tight to him though, just not give him as much space as he did. The distances were all wrong, it was neither one or the other.

 

[James19]

Full backs can’t stop every cross. Maeda took a great touch which gave him an advantage. Tav was right not to dive in but should have got a bit closer, although it may not have made a difference. It wasn’t even a great cross.

Most of the trouble came centrally on Saturday.

 

[TerryMunro]

It’s not just this isolated incident. Tavernier is targeted by opposition managers because he’s an easy outlet for them to gain possession. It’s costing us games and in turn trophies. If he isn’t sold in the summer we will be will be having the same issues and conversations next season, with another manager after this one gets an early payoff at Christmas time.

 

[Gameboy]

Looks like it’s two camps and no in between on here.

Could Tav do better, yes we all know what he would like to have happen. However modern fullbacks aren’t taught nor trained like a defensive fullback anymore and hardly any press or block crosses, even at the elite level.

Most full backs are wingers not good enough and drop back, in the odd occurrence and new trend of centre backs playing at full back and their most likely to make the defensive decisions but watching, White, Ake, Gvardiol etc their still being done the same as Tav.

Teams hardly press anymore as the speed the game is now played at it’s near pointless to get out of shape for. I think some need to forget how they were brought up and judge the game how it is played now.

 

[Now and forever]

It happens, time and time again and it costs us time and time again.

 

[BlackfordLoyal]

The definition of insanity doing the same thing time and time again, the fact is Tav can not defend even now his goals and assists after starting to dry up (aside from penalties) it's time to move on as it's just going to cost us more goals and trophies next season.

 

[Sasquatch]

Looks like it’s two camps and no in between on here.

Could Tav do better, yes we all know what he would like to have happen. However modern fullbacks aren’t taught nor trained like a defensive fullback anymore and hardly any press or block crosses, even at the elite level.

Most full backs are wingers not good enough and drop back, in the odd occurrence and new trend of centre backs playing at full back and their most likely to make the defensive decisions but watching, White, Ake, Gvardiol etc their still being done the same as Tav.

Teams hardly press anymore as the speed the game is now played at it’s near pointless to get out of shape for. I think some need to forget how they were brought up and judge the game how it is played now.

I don't think Tav was the worst Vs them.

However, he's getting caught out with basics. He jumped in a few times to try a nip the ball away, missed, and let his man in behind too easily. This is occurring more often of late.

Also, you don't need to be a pro player to understand that your aim is to stop the ball coming in from wide, regardless if you're a full back or not, you stop the cross. It's basic fundamentals and not some new footballing trend.
This is amateur level stuff that I'd be moaning like %^*& to team mates about in a Sunday morning league.

Tav was not the worst on Saturday for it, barasic was far worse at sitting off and inviting them in to either cross in or take a pot at goal.

Both, although not great, were a mile off the likes of Lawrence and Lundstram in their ineptitude, who didn't bother their arse to track runners and were easily outdone by a couple of 1-2's. Shear laziness and unacceptable on a Sunday morning, let alone pro level earning thousands per week.

Lawrence in particular was just jogging back at a snails pace, and this was early in the first half, so couldn't even say he was knackered. Inexcusable really.

 

[dh1963]

The number of goals they have scored against us at Celtic Park (when we are not actually gifting them) which originate with a ball into the box from the right side of our defence is quite remarkable. So many, in fact, that it can’t be a coincidence.

Conceded goals have to come from either the right, the left, or central.

We've conceded 4 goals at Parkhead this season.

Goal 1 Bernardo, a corner from the left.
Goal 2 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Gosl 3 O'Reilly, played in from the left.
Goal 4 Lundstram og, played in from the right.
So it's 1 out of 4 down the right.

We've also conceded 4 goals to them at Ibrox.

Goal 1 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Goal 2 Maeda, down the right.
Goal 3 O'Reilly penalty, handball of a cross from the left.
Goal 4 Idah, through middle.
Also, 1 out of 4 down the right, and I'd argue 1 out of 8 that was the fault of the right back.

Not saying Tavernier has defended well, and not saying he should be our right back next season. But I am wondering why we spend so much time debating our weakness on the right of defence in these Celtic defeats, when it's blatantly obvious there are weaknesses right across our back line.

 

[madride]

Conceded goals have to come from either the right, the left, or central.

We've conceded 4 goals at Parkhead this season.

Goal 1 Bernardo, a corner from the left.
Goal 2 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Gosl 3 O'Reilly, played in from the left.
Goal 4 Lundstram og, played in from the right.
So it's 1 out of 4 down the right.

We've also conceded 4 goals to them at Ibrox.

Goal 1 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Goal 2 Maeda, down the right.
Goal 3 O'Reilly penalty, handball of a cross from the left.
Goal 4 Idah, through middle.
Also, 1 out of 4 down the right, and I'd argue 1 out of 8 that was the fault of the right back.

Not saying Tavernier has defended well, and not saying he should be our right back this season. But I am wondering why we spend so much time debating our weakness on the right of defence in these Celtic defeats, when it's blatantly obvious there are weaknesses right across our back line.

Wasting your time with facts, for the angry among us their mind is made up.

I’m not completely defending Tav (pardon the pun) and I think the time to move on is probably upon us but I’m sick of the angry, snidey posts riddled with inaccuracies that you’d expect to find on the huddleboard

 

[RTD-BEAR]

Conceded goals have to come from either the right, the left, or central.

We've conceded 4 goals at Parkhead this season.

Goal 1 Bernardo, a corner from the left.
Goal 2 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Gosl 3 O'Reilly, played in from the left.
Goal 4 Lundstram og, played in from the right.
So it's 1 out of 4 down the right.

We've also conceded 4 goals to them at Ibrox.

Goal 1 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Goal 2 Maeda, down the right.
Goal 3 O'Reilly penalty, handball of a cross from the left.
Goal 4 Idah, through middle.
Also, 1 out of 4 down the right, and I'd argue 1 out of 8 that was the fault of the right back.

Not saying Tavernier has defended well, and not saying he should be our right back next season. But I am wondering why we spend so much time debating our weakness on the right of defence in these Celtic defeats, when it's blatantly obvious there are weaknesses right across our back line.

The bigger thing for me is we do not keep our shape and defend as a team and when we do get out it doesn't stick and we are then played through a players are out of position.

Our defence was set up by Gerrard to partly be our attacking width we are now 3 managers later who are trying to change these players to do a task they are not good at

While at same time the midfield and upfront set up is all over the place mainly due to injuries and does not protect the defence like it was designed to these players can play a certain way.

This is my one criticism of clement he needs to tweak the team tactics to suit the players we have until he can get the players that suit the system he wants to play.

 

[de_bear]

Which is why getting tight to Maeda is the wrong thing to do. Tav goes to push the ball there and Maeda could beat him with a single touch and get himself in on goal. His pace means the best way to defend him is to hold position, slow him down and make him %^*& up. He did that with a cross to nobody, which Lundstram inexplicably passed to the bottom corner of the net.

Tav didn't know it was a cross to nobody, it could have been Hatate running in.

He has to stop the ball getting into the box.

 

[cooprfc]

Tav didn't know it was a cross to nobody, it could have been Hatate running in.

He has to stop the ball getting into the box.

He does. But, like any full back, in any team, some will make it into the box. It's not possible to stop every cross.

Watch any game you like at any level and you will see crosses from both teams from the left and the right making it into the box.

The fault of this particular goal is Lundstrams and it's pretty clear that that's case.

Tav doesn't defend it well and if it WAS Hatate coming in them by all means moan at the cross getting in. But the circumstances of this goal see the blame fall on Lundstrum as it is unrealistic to expect no crosses to get in and what JL did was catastrophic and a completely unforced error.

 

[de_bear]

He does. But, like any full back, in any team, some will make it into the box. It's not possible to stop every cross.

Watch any game you like at any level and you will see crosses from both teams from the left and the right making it into the box.

The fault of this particular goal is Lundstrams and it's pretty clear that that's case.

Tav doesn't defend it well and if it WAS Hatate coming in them by all means moan at the cross getting in. But the circumstances of this goal see the blame fall on Lundstrum as it is unrealistic to expect no crosses to get in and what JL did was catastrophic and a completely unforced error.

Of course crosses get in, but better to stop the ball coming in if you can, kind of the job of a full back. Risk management.

Lundstrum was garbage at the goal, but so was Tav, given the time the ball was in the air, and Maedas first touch, he had enough time to put both the ball and the player in the stand.

Not excusing Lunstrum, but Tavs defending and failure to do his job was a huge contributing factor.

 

[Mr. T.]

Conceded goals have to come from either the right, the left, or central.

We've conceded 4 goals at Parkhead this season.

Goal 1 Bernardo, a corner from the left.
Goal 2 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Gosl 3 O'Reilly, played in from the left.
Goal 4 Lundstram og, played in from the right.
So it's 1 out of 4 down the right.

We've also conceded 4 goals to them at Ibrox.

Goal 1 Furuhashi, through the middle.
Goal 2 Maeda, down the right.
Goal 3 O'Reilly penalty, handball of a cross from the left.
Goal 4 Idah, through middle.
Also, 1 out of 4 down the right, and I'd argue 1 out of 8 that was the fault of the right back.

Not saying Tavernier has defended well, and not saying he should be our right back next season. But I am wondering why we spend so much time debating our weakness on the right of defence in these Celtic defeats, when it's blatantly obvious there are weaknesses right across our back line.

I totally agree. I wasn’t just talking about this season, though and, to be honest, I don’t have any stats to back my thoughts up- it just feels as if, every time they get the ball in that area, there is real danger caused either by our inability to prevent the ball coming into the middle or our inability to deal with it when it gets there.

 

[JCDarcheville]

Tav didn't know it was a cross to nobody, it could have been Hatate running in.

He has to stop the ball getting into the box.

He puts pressure on Maeda who doesn’t get to slow, lift his head and pick a teammate out.

We need to be realistic. No fullback is stopping everything coming into the box vs. a player with that sort of pace, and when defending 1 vs 1. Try to stop the cross, but make damn sure you don’t let him get get behind you.

 

[Wavy Davy]

It really never ceases to amaze me that people watch Tav and rate him as a right back in his current form.
Teams target our right hand side for a reason, they all see a weakness, especially if it is Tav and Goldson right sided.
The manky mob have not changed their tactics in years against us, they put two people literally on the touch lines and we just give them all the time in the world and surprise surprise someone runs round the back of our defence. Repeat repeat and repeat. Maeda, Forrest, Abada, Jota etc all went so wide we just left them be.
We are weak on RB and LB and don’t know how to mark these guys out of it OR even better, take advantage of 2 players being virtually out of the game out wide on the wing.
I am afraid Tav’s goal scoring record masks a god awful captaincy record. Time for change for me.

 

[BSPECIAL]

Fed up with the amount of goals coming from his side because of balls across into box that he didn't get close to cutting out. Especially against that mob. Goldson also very guilty of failing to clear low passes into box from wide areas. Both have run their race at Ibrox and goldson should never have been given a new contract especially when he held off signing hoping another club would come in for him. Sadly they knew he wasn't good enough for them and most definitely not good enough for us now.

 

[Wordy_Rappinghood]

You'd need to one of those "It was the wind's fault" types not to accept Tavernier played a part in both goals but if ever a team collectively fail it's this lot against Celtic.

It's deep rooted and Tavernier is a major part of it but the idea that Souttar, Davis, Barisic, Lawrence ,Lundstram and co could have avoided defeat if he wasn't playing is as silly as the idea he should still be captain next year.

 

[Ubik]

You'd need to one of those "It was the wind's fault" types not to accept Tavernier played a part in both goals but if ever a team collectively fail it's this lot against Celtic.

It's deep rooted and Tavernier is a major part of it but the idea that Souttar, Davis, Barisic, Lawrence ,Lundstram and co could have avoided defeat if he wasn't playing is as silly as the idea he should still be captain next year.

I thought Davies and Souttar were fine on saturday along with Silva, Sterling and Dessers, everyone else were pretty crap with some even worse than that.

 

[Wordy_Rappinghood]

I thought Davies and Souttar were fine on saturday along with Silva, Sterling and Dessers, everyone else were pretty crap with some even worse than that.

What a bar we've set, eh?