What is happening with the B Team?

WarnbroTavernier

WarnbroTavernier

Active Member
Apologies for being badly out of the loop here but why did we withdraw from the Lowland League?

Having no reserve league or any kind of competition for the B team to play in is no environment for players to learn.

What a waste of time that is.
 
Myogi said:
Board threw the toys out the pram because of the withdrawal from the vote on a proposed conference league.

Everyone knows its better to have your foot in the door than not.
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Hellish, so now the B team have no competition to play in at all? Back in the day we had the reserve league west and the premier reserve league. Now what? They just play friendlies now and again?
 
I think it was Mulholland who was doing a lot of the pushing to get the B Team in a proper league as all the talk around that has stopped since he left.

There seems to have been little to no recruitment at B Team level this season
 
WarnbroTavernier said:
Apologies for being badly out of the loop here but why did we withdraw from the Lowland League?

Having no reserve league or any kind of competition for the B team to play in is no environment for players to learn.

What a waste of time that is.
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Oh great , another thread to simply moan at something.

You know fine well we decide against playing in the Lowland League , but you just want attention from the rest of the moaning cunts on here
 
That's a few different threads about the B team and also insights in other posts about a worrying attitude amongst some of the players. This needs to get sorted or the next few years coming up won't produce the talent we need.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
When they played lowland league last year, everyone complained the level was too poor and it was a waste of time. Which, with no promotion, is probably true.
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I don't think the Lowland League was a waste of time at all. It gave the players matches to train and prepare for every week playing in front of crowds. Albeit not at the level we would want them to be playing at but it still presented challenges. For all the moans about the level of opposition the B Team never managed to win that league.

Would McCausland have been able to make the step up to the first team squad and make the same impact if he hadn't had a couple of seasons playing regularly in the Lowland League?
 
People slagged of the Lowland Leaue when we were in is as the standard is terrible, and now people are unhappy we're not in it.

It seems whatever we do at youth level, it doesn't work.
 
The Lowland League would have been fine if we'd actually used it as intended, to develop players. Instead we tried win it to prove a point.

Hearts spent last season in mid table, playing 16/17 year olds. Regardless of the opposition/score they played the same way, developing the players. This season the same players started, but a few of them have now played for the first team including Tait who came on in the semi against us. They're second in the division with almost the exact same squad and the improvement in the players has been clear to see.
 
Big Negri said:
It’s a joke the way we have treated our B team players this season. How can these lads develop when they are not playing games. When they do it’s a friendly.
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Even if they did, a lot don’t have the right desire or attitude to improve.

Whoever is the new head of academy, he’s gonna have to cut a load of years and focus their work the younger groups that still have a chance.
 
I was disappointed we withdrew just for the fact we needed regular games, we’ve stunted a year of lads developments and no piss statement about best in class will sugar coat that.
 
Playing against brickies and lawyers will not prepare young players for top level professional football. We need to join the English youth league.
 
Chimo said:
People slagged of the Lowland Leaue when we were in is as the standard is terrible, and now people are unhappy we're not in it.

It seems whatever we do at youth level, it doesn't work.
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Playing Lowland League is far far better than training and playing friendlies. TBH leaving that league without an alternative should’ve seen someone getting their jotters
 
Chris Traeger said:
The Lowland League would have been fine if we'd actually used it as intended, to develop players. Instead we tried win it to prove a point.

Hearts spent last season in mid table, playing 16/17 year olds. Regardless of the opposition/score they played the same way, developing the players. This season the same players started, but a few of them have now played for the first team including Tait who came on in the semi against us. They're second in the division with almost the exact same squad and the improvement in the players has been clear to see.
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Wasn't aware of this mate, but Hearts seem to be doing it the correct way. We should be using this approach.
 
Ter said:
I don't think the Lowland League was a waste of time at all. It gave the players matches to train and prepare for every week playing in front of crowds. Albeit not at the level we would want them to be playing at but it still presented challenges. For all the moans about the level of opposition the B Team never managed to win that league.

Would McCausland have been able to make the step up to the first team squad and make the same impact if he hadn't had a couple of seasons playing regularly in the Lowland League?
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That's fine and that's your opinion but we played in it for two years and opted not to continue. Obviously we felt we were getting very little from it.
 
TheDerryend said:
Wasn't aware of this mate, but Hearts seem to be doing it the correct way. We should be using this approach.
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To be fair, I don't know it for sure but having watched all the B teams at some point, Hearts are the only one that even in game were emphasising how they play. I saw them 4-0 down in a first half last season and they still were passing out from the back, playing their game and it's startling the difference in them to this year. They've kept a consistent squad who are still playing the same style but better, faster and stronger. Meanwhile we were signing players for six figures and flinging them in and having the likes of Lowry, Devine and King there instead of being on loan.

If Hearts had kept Mackenzie Kirk there this season they'd likely have won the league, he'd 26 goals by Christmas, instead they sent him on loan to develop more.
 
If the B team is going to work it needs to be in the championship like how it works in Spain and Portugal with no promotion or relegation. Have it as a proper full time team competing at a decent level and it will produce players eventually.
 
Chris Traeger said:
To be fair, I don't know it for sure but having watched all the B teams at some point, Hearts are the only one that even in game were emphasising how they play. I saw them 4-0 down in a first half last season and they still were passing out from the back, playing their game and it's startling the difference in them to this year. They've kept a consistent squad who are still playing the same style but better, faster and stronger. Meanwhile we were signing players for six figures and flinging them in and having the likes of Lowry, Devine and King there instead of being on loan.

If Hearts had kept Mackenzie Kirk there this season they'd likely have won the league, he'd 26 goals by Christmas, instead they sent him on loan to develop more.
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That sounds exactly what they've done. We need to be bringing more players through and the b team would be a good start with this idea.

We are dealing in a market where 4,5 and 6 million players isn't going to cut it anymore. We've never been good at bringing youngsters through, time we prioritised it. It's the best way forward for us instead of spending a lot of money like above, these days it is just getting you average players.
 
Davie Weir Loyal said:
It was far more competitive than people made out. It made little sense removing our youth team from this league and playing 15-20 friendlies instead
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What's more is it continues to get more competitive as the original sign up clubs get relegated and replaced. Dalbeattie replaced by Linlithgow Rose this year and Edinburgh Uni likely to be replaced by Broxburn this year. Once Gretna go next year there will be no more of the 7/8/9 - 0 results you used to regularly see.
 
Myogi said:
Board threw the toys out the pram because of the withdrawal from the vote on a proposed conference league.

Everyone knows its better to have your foot in the door than not.
Click to expand...
The board will get proved right when the pyramid eventually opens its doors to top flight B teams like other top Nations
 
Arkanoid said:
The board will get proved right when the pyramid eventually opens its doors to top flight B teams like other top Nations
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Far more likely that B teams will be done away with in three years. There's zero motivation for clubs higher up the chain to let them in.
 
EC54 said:
I don't understand this , it was at least competitive and Rangers, Celtic, &Hearts B teams were never good enough to win it so not sure how it can be rated as too poor ?
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Folk have a made up narrative that the B team are good enough to play in the Scottish championship for some reason, despite there being zero evidence for that being the case.
 
EC54 said:
I don't understand this , it was at least competitive and Rangers, Celtic, &Hearts B teams were never good enough to win it so not sure how it can be rated as too poor ?
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Think that the concensus is that it's better to play against elite academy teams rather than plumbers and labourers that train once a week and barely string two passes together.
 
Be better if we could send B team level players out on loan to play every week.
Not always going to be practical I suppose
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
Think that the concensus is that it's better to play against elite academy teams rather than plumbers and labourers that train once a week and barely string two passes together.
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Not the consensus at them or Hearts.

Also minimum two nights training a week like most part time sides in the county and a lot of quality at that level. Enough quality that in a 36 game season we failed to win 1/3rd of our games.
 
Chris Traeger said:
Not the consensus at them or Hearts.

Also minimum two nights training a week like most part time sides in the county and a lot of quality at that level. Enough quality that in a 36 game season we failed to win 1/3rd of our games.
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The aim isn't to win games though is it? It's to develop players. And it's still 16/17 year old boys playing against men.

Are the players with 2 years experience playing against players marginally better than amateur players any closer to the first team or better developed for the experience?

Does Ajax put kids teams against Dutch junior sides? Or West Ham or Southampton or any half decent academy?

There isn't a lot of quality at that level at all. In fact it's mostly failed academy players or ex Juniors. There's very little quality in the top tier in this country, never mind the 5th.

Rangers and celtic bought their way into it and hoped to bribe their way up the pyramid to a level where the teams could benefit. Now that's off the table, Rangers obviously feel there's no point in continuing.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
The aim isn't to win games though is it? It's to develop players. And it's still 16/17 year old boys playing against men.

Are the players with 2 years experience playing against players marginally better than amateur players any closer to the first team or better developed for the experience?

Does Ajax put kids teams against Dutch junior sides? Or West Ham or Southampton or any half decent academy?

There isn't a lot of quality at that level at all. In fact it's mostly failed academy players or ex Juniors. There's very little quality in the top tier in this country, never mind the 5th.

Rangers and celtic bought their way into it and hoped to bribe their way up the pyramid to a level where the teams could benefit. Now that's off the table, Rangers obviously feel there's no point in continuing.
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We aimed to win games. We talked about being in the race to win the league.

They're way better than amateur. There's a reason no lowland league side has returned and no SPFL side has made it back up.

Academies around the world do various things, there's no foolproof 100% approach. Harry Kane was constantly out on loan, Phil Foden barely played PL2 football while Saka had a full season at it.

If the quality is so low, why didn't we win the league? We were trying - the only way we'd have got up the pyramid was proving we were too good for it.

Either way, we've screwed development for a season by not having competitive games anywhere. The "elite" teams were playing friendlies against are all playing in competitive youth leagues - we're their training exercises.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
Think that the concensus is that it's better to play against elite academy teams rather than plumbers and labourers that train once a week and barely string two passes together.
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Fair enough why do they get beat so often then by these teams unable to string 2 passes together, they certainly can when I watch them ?
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
I think the people that watched them play at that level for 2 years might be a bit more qualified to judge that.
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I watched Rangers Celtic & Hearts B teams against various lowland league teams and most weeks it was a very competitive game with not that much between them. I could not see what harm it done to any of these B teams.
 
Chris Traeger said:
We aimed to win games. We talked about being in the race to win the league.

They're way better than amateur. There's a reason no lowland league side has returned and no SPFL side has made it back up.

Academies around the world do various things, there's no foolproof 100% approach. Harry Kane was constantly out on loan, Phil Foden barely played PL2 football while Saka had a full season at it.

If the quality is so low, why didn't we win the league? We were trying - the only way we'd have got up the pyramid was proving we were too good for it.

Either way, we've screwed development for a season by not having competitive games anywhere. The "elite" teams were playing friendlies against are all playing in competitive youth leagues - we're their training exercises.
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You've answered your own question. Academies do various things and after two years in the Lowland League, we've decided that there's so little to be gained from it, we'd rather not even bother.

The reason teams go up and don't come back down is simple and it's why EK will go up this year. Money. Investing heavily in players that are far better than the level around them. There's players getting a grand a game playing against University students.
 
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