Are we making progress?

Lovenkrands said:
I keep hearing we are, yet I remain to be convinced.

It still seems we are defensively poor, and lack pace and creativity.

And if we are making progress how much? Title challenge, easily second or looking at third again?
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I can't see it.

This time last season, after six games we were on 10 points as opposed to 11 just now inc the 5-1 gubbing + playing Aberdeen.

Pedros spent close on nine fcuking million and we're simply a point ahead of where we were, never mind the Progres result.

I don't see how we're any further forward other than a slightly better team (on paper). The results don't lie.

Unless there's some dramatic turnaround then we're 2nd place will be out of sight by Christmas and we're playing for 3rd or 4th.
 
We definitely are. 50% of the Squad changed in the summer through necessity, it takes time to gel a brand new team.

First half on Friday was ok, lacked a bit of bite but in general we totally controlled the game, lost our way in the 2nd but should still have one. Disappointing and there will be more hard days to come. Patience is going to be required!
 
At the moment I am in camp of:

I keep hearing we have but I'm not yet seeing it very regularly.

Reality not meeting what I am being told; at the moment...but things can change. We appear not to be £7m net better off than we were. It is hard to see it in terms of points, performances.
 
Craig said:
I can't see it.

This time last season, after six games we were on 10 points as opposed to 11 just now inc the 5-1 gubbing + playing Aberdeen.

Pedros spent close on nine fcuking million and we're simply a point ahead of where we were, never mind the Progres result.

I don't see how we're any further forward other than a slightly better team (on paper). The results don't lie.

Unless there's some dramatic turnaround then we're 2nd place will be out of sight by Christmas and we're playing for 3rd or 4th.
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The results do lie, the hibs defeat was not on the cards. Had the ref taken the correct decisions then stokes was off in the first ten minutes or at the same time as jack. We would not have lost that game. Partick should have had a man sent off for the foul on jack.

Aberdeen have played one of the likely top 6 sides and were fortunate to get a draw v hearts. We haven't played particularly bad in any games but gave made silly mistakes in defence and have had a number of very poor decisions go against us.
 
We've got better players this season but a worse manager so it levels itself out somewhat. The evidence in terms of points accumulated says we haven't really improved on last season's start and we had a far tougher opening run of games last season too.

A doing on Saturday will be the watershed moment if it happens.
 
Albertz Was King said:
The manager is woefully out his depth.

Type you'd expect seeing Hearts during their mental Romanov era get as manager.
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This is exactly it.

It's like something Celtic would've done during NIAR. Imagine we had a manager who almost won the EPL, who had gone the entire season unbeaten. We'd be lauding it, and then absolutely pissing it when they hired some randomer from Mexico via Qatar.

I like Pedro but it was always going to be a big ask of such a left field appointment.

To be perfectly honest, in terms of progress, I'm not sure we'd be any worse of if we just stuck with Warburton. Giving him almost £10m, probably keeping McKay vs being 2 points better off this season, and humiliated in Europe. It wouldn't have been difficult to match. And Warburton isn't the answer, so God knows what Pedro is.
 
None that I can see. And after £10million spent!

The only 'measures' or progress I see are straw clutching and excuses and promises it will be better once emmm the team gel/players learn English. When it comes to results and performances...well we are apparently not to include them when assessing progress.

And as for Progres...well that was some progress indeed.
 
Results would suggest there's very little (if any) improvement.

We're on the same type of consistency as we were last season. We get a couple of positive results and just when you think we're "turning the corner" we get a cünt of a result like Friday night!
 
sudamericaranger said:
None that I can see. And after £10million spent!

The only 'measures' or progress I see are straw clutching and excuses and promises it will be better once emmm the team gel/players learn English. When it comes to results and performances...well we are apparently not to include them when assessing progress.

And as for Progres...well that was some progress indeed.
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It's going up and up!
 
the current formation is killing this team, Miller starting every single week is killing this team.
i think we need to go three in the middle, this will allow Dorrans to move further forward.
 
Results show it's marginal at best and yet we've spent circa £8-9m improving the squad?

He desperately needs a positive result this weekend to convince us there's something more substantial to build on, otherwise it's only a matter of time before he's binned.
 
We are playing some nice football but incapable of keeping a clean sheet and incapable of grinding out a result in anything that looks remotely like a big game.

I like this manager and I would like to see it work out for him but I don't think he will last the distance.
The match tomorrow is a far from a foregone conclusion - we are not solid enough at the back to play with confidence throughout the team.
 
I believe we ARE making progress, but it's not enough to keep the manager in the good graces of the fans. The manager and team are better, but i'm not sure they are going to improve a great deal to get closer to Celtic in the next season or two.
 
We have improved all over the pitch.

Some fans have this mindset of - appoint manager > sign players > be amazing. It doesnt work like that, its incremental improvements.
 
As I've said I'm in the camp of little to no progress based on the facts of the results, and lack of identity in how we play.

He needs a big performance as much as a result this weekend, and that's not overlooking he has to win tomorrow first. If it's another hammering as has been said many times over the weekend I don't think he would recover and it would only be a matter of time.

If he can get through the weekend with some pride in tact at least, another huge game comes on the 21st October at home to Aberdeen, not to mention the fixtures in between. It may be at that point the board have a real decision to make once we know where we are in the race for second.
 
Clearly I'm an optimist as I think we have seen improvements from last season.

Tav & Windass are largely improved.

Our midfield is a lot stronger with Jack & Dorrans.

We are much more of a threat with Morelos and Candeias.

Our defence has more quality with Alves and Cardoso.

The problems are organisational (particularly in defence), the team are still gelling and our left side is still weak.
 
Earl of Leven said:
Last season we had a tougher start, definitely.
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Bewildered. Assume you're adding in the earlier scum game which obviously skews it but other than that this year has clearly been harder. Partick, Dingwall and Fir Park are the trickier bottom
six away games (as everyone was saying pre season and I'd say on current form Jags and Motherwell might push for top six) and both Edinburgh clubs are significantly tougher than what we faced at home last season.

Honestly think people are starting to go Flat Earth Society in their desire to prove Pedro a dud.

2016:
Accies, Motherwell, Ross County at home
Killie, Dundee and Scum away
2017:
Hearts, Hibs, Dundee, at home
Partick, Ross County and Motherwell away
 
We score more goals than last season this is definitely a plus.
We are still weak at the back particularly down the sides. We have improved in the middle with the 2 new centre backs unfortunately on Friday they were not at their best and partly due to this conceded 2 easy goals. We must make opponents work for their goals.
We need to acquire another option for right back.
It will be nip and tuck for 2nd place and don't rule out a cup final.
3/5 for Pedro at the moment.
 
On current form I'd say we are still a fair bit off of a title challenge, will be fighting Aberdeen for 2nd but if our results against them are good then we will be comfortable. I also think a cup final (win!) will be entirely possible.

In terms of progress, I think we are stronger in every area of the park but been massively unlucky in 3 games. Not seeing the gutless performances of last season, so definitely something to build upon.
 
Yes we are making progress, but not nearly enough and
nowhere near enough to be challenging them
We will be in a battle for 2nd

I don't see this experiment ending well
 
Progress in some ways, backwards in others.

Progress in as much as we have taken something from games we would have lost or drawn last season. Backwards in that we seem to loose control of the game at the start of the second half. In some ways the Hearts game was our best performance, as at no time were they in the match. In all other games we have been on the back foot for long spells, esp second half. Needs sorted quickly, as we have harder games coming up.
 
I know we're Rangers and that's all that matters but realistically we all know we need to finish higher than the Sheep this season and closer to Celtic. So far, I'd say there's a lot more mitigation for Pedro's results than there is for Derek McInnes' - another manager who has been majorly backed by his board but has basically built a squad over 4-5 YEARS not 4-5 MONTHS.
 
I think there's improvement in that we have a striker who can score and as a team we compete better for second balls.

That's about as far as it goes.

We're still defensively weak and I'd say we've become worse at dictating and dominating possession.
 
We are making progress. This squad is still in its infancy and the players are still learning how we are meant to play. However, Pedro may well run out of time because of fans' impatience. I hope the board are strong enough to keep faith until we see whether its truly working or not. The other option is we punt every manager who isnt almost instantly successful, that would be an horrific few years ahead
 
Have we improved.. yes, but it is the rate of improvement that is the problem, should we expect to to be beating hibs and thistle and keep clean sheets? Yes.. but we are still unable to which is just not good enough. We need to be thinking about beating Aberdeen and st Johnstone with comfortable performances before comparing ourselves to the shettlestons.
 
Much better on paper.
Marginally better in reality.
We are still too weak defensively and that mob will exploit that next weekend.
 
We have improved on last season however mistakes are still happening and they need to get sorted out. Easy goals are being shipped through the full back positions however we dont have anyone to replace Tavernier and with Wallace out its going to be John or Hodson for that position.

Midfield is stronger and attack is better mainly due to Morelos. We need to start Herrera to see what he's like however on first impressions he looks clumsy and he doesnt seem to get into goalscoring positions.

There is a lot of pressure on Pedro just now but with the money we have invested, the club will not make any rash decisions.
 
EndOfDays said:
We have improved all over the pitch.

Some fans have this mindset of - appoint manager > sign players > be amazing. It doesnt work like that, its incremental improvements.
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Full back position is still as weak as last season imo. Granted that's probably because it's the same players in there but we haven't seemed to have done much even tactically to address the acres of space being left in behind them when we attack.

The shambles of the 2nd PT goal on Friday was peak Warburton defending, and the full backs were definitely culpable on both sides.
 
Progress can be measured against Progres, MW's team would have beaten them and that show you how bad that result is.

We have not made any progress IMO
 
I'd say a very slight improvement, we don't look as predictable going forward and we have a striker who looks like he'll score at least one a game.

However, while the weaknesses are different they are hurting us just us much. Last season it was defending set plays this season it's our sloppyness in possession. We're still just gifting goals away in an idiotic fashion and team that do that won't achieve anything.
 
This is gonna be a long term project. Did anyone genuinely think we were gonna challenge Celtic this season? A clear 2nd and a cup (preferably the Scottish to end the season on a high) had to be our aim then build on from that next season. We can't continue this theme of sacking managers & replacing loads of players.

Pedro may not be the right guy but we need to be realistic to where we are at the moment. I think there has been a massive improvement on last season but we are nowhere near the finished article.
 
Improvement for me, although disappointingly minor, and unfortunately the results in the league don't really show it so far. Encouragingly, I'd say we have dominated every game apart from Hibs (the majority of which we played with 10 men)

Squad is undoubtedly stronger, although you would expect that with a £7m outlay. My biggest frustrations are that we're still playing a 38 year old Kenny Miller, and don't seem to be employing a system that suits our playing squad.

Unfortunately, players usually take time to settle, especially ones who have come to us from outside the UK, so I'm reserving full judgement until November/December time.
 
I think as a team we give away a lot of needless fouls
Which so far have cost us
I think cardosa is hungry an likes a battle,need to be smarter,he also gets caught under the ball a lot
He fixes these ,we'll be better defensively:
Our full backs love to charge forward
Leaving little cover
Jack can't be everywhere
But he's trying his absolute hardest to do so.

Hope Pena comes good ,sorts out his weight of pass or maybe play him off morales
As I think he has a good wee burst of pace from a standing position
An he gets into the box when the ball is wide
Something we need in our midfielders

In the games we've dropped points we've been unlucky in 2 of them
Could be 4 points better of if a better final or correct final pass was made
 
If you'd asked me that question on Thursday of last week, I'd have said, most definitely yes.

However, the manner of our near defeat at Thistle really took the wind out of my sails. After that draw, I looked back at our opening fixtures and have to say that it hasn't been the toughest of starts to the league. Despite that, we stand 5 points behind the scum after only 6 matches, and sitting in third place. If that form continues, we'll end up third and over 30 points behind the scum this season, again.

So, looking at the squad, you have to think we have made progress, but the results really need to start backing that up or the reality will become, no, we haven't made any progress.
 
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