Bruno starts for Portugal

The Ultimate Warrior said:
"The best CH at the club"

Is that supposed to be a compliment? We lost 50 goals last season - more than Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Motherwell and Killie.

There is a reason we are going out and throwing cash on CB's.
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He played 19 games for us last season
Wilson 14
Bates 12
Cardoso 12
Martin 10
McCrorie maybe 7 at Centre Half?

Im not excusing any of the CH's last season, Disgraceful is the best is I can muster at some of the performances, but Centre Halfs need consistent runs of games, ideally with the right partner, you look at any succesfull side, the CH pairing will play together for 80-85% of the matches in the season.

Not one of our Centre halves played more than 50% of our league games last season.

When you count Wilson, Cardoso and Martin played 36 games between them its no wonder we lost 50 goals in the league. 3 CH's who are utter shitebags.

If Alves stays, and I wouldn't be bothered at him going given his wages, then he will be a first pick with Goldson, we get a quality left back and we have a solid back 5.
 
Buffalo said:
He played 19 games for us last season
Wilson 14
Bates 12
Cardoso 12
Martin 10
McCrorie maybe 7 at Centre Half?

Im not excusing any of the CH's last season, Disgraceful is the best is I can muster at some of the performances, but Centre Halfs need consistent runs of games, ideally with the right partner, you look at any succesfull side, the CH pairing will play together for 80-85% of the matches in the season.

Not one of our Centre halves played more than 50% of our league games last season.

When you count Wilson, Cardoso and Martin played 36 games between them its no wonder we lost 50 goals in the league. 3 CH's who are utter shitebags.

If Alves stays, and I wouldn't be bothered at him going given his wages, then he will be a first pick with Goldson, we get a quality left back and we have a solid back 5.
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Alves missed games because he is old and his body is broken - how will that change, is he going to get younger?

He didn't feature much after the St Johnstone game at home because he was comedy shit.

He was without doubt our best paid CB "our best CB" he is fucken supposed to be our best CB - even in a thought process where he did outperform a Bates - its David fucken Bates for christ sake, he is paid to be better than him.

The premise of rebuilding our side with holding midfielders, fullbacks who sit and CB who has to babysit Alves...nah...just get a better CB...and set out a team to play like a side who is trying to win games not accomodate a CB...

We took a gun to a knife fight last year and lost - the higher paid players like Alves were as culpable as any in that...
 
Jacrispy said:
I don’t remember many people saying that when Weir (who was slower than a week in jail) was a mainstay in our defence.

Positionally he’s excellent, he’s excellent in the air (much like Weir) that’s why he’s played at a level far beyond pretty much all of his team mates. It’s worth keeping him in there if we can make the common sense adjustments, or at the very least it’s worth consideration (Weir had this with Papac and Cuellar/Boogie, it meant his severe lack of pace was never an issue). I don’t think he needs to be ousted just because he’s Bruno Alves and we’ve decided we don’t like him.
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Weirs positional sense,and timing were far superior to that of Alves though.:)
 
Jacrispy said:
I don’t remember many people saying that when Weir (who was slower than a week in jail) was a mainstay in our defence.

Positionally he’s excellent, he’s excellent in the air (much like Weir) that’s why he’s played at a level far beyond pretty much all of his team mates. It’s worth keeping him in there if we can make the common sense adjustments, or at the very least it’s worth consideration (Weir had this with Papac and Cuellar/Boogie, it meant his severe lack of pace was never an issue). I don’t think he needs to be ousted just because he’s Bruno Alves and we’ve decided we don’t like him.
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I actually thought Alves was poor positionally on many occasions last season (surprisingly so).

Weir was suited to a Walter style of set up (and yes was helped by cb partner) and was brought in as he slotted in perfectly. Weir was also far better at interventions and reading the game than Alves at this stage in his career.

However I can't see Gerrard adopting such a style nor do I think we should be adopting our system to fit a centre half who looked completely done last season when the ball was on the deck. Age has just gotten the better of him
 
The Ultimate Warrior said:
Alves missed games because he is old and his body is broken - how will that change, is he going to get younger?

He didn't feature much after the St Johnstone game at home because he was comedy shit.

He was without doubt our best paid CB "our best CB" he is fucken supposed to be our best CB - even in a thought process where he did outperform a Bates - its David fucken Bates for christ sake, he is paid to be better than him.

The premise of rebuilding our side with holding midfielders, fullbacks who sit and CB who has to babysit Alves...nah...just get a better CB...and set out a team to play like a side who is trying to win games not accomodate a CB...

We took a gun to a knife fight last year and lost - the higher paid players like Alves were as culpable as any in that...
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Every player no matter age gets injuries, maybe his body is broken although im sure our medical staff know better than us and will act and advise accordingly.

Lets not pretend he didn't feature much after St Johnstone because he was "comedy shit" , a game BTW where Danny Wilson was as culpable, he barely featured because Graeme Murty was the most incompetent manager we could have had who played players he liked, players who wouldn't stand up to him, if performances were the be all for Murty 6 or 7 players would never have played for the club again.

No one said rebuild to babysit Alves, you rebuild to your strengths, was Weir the best CH Smith could have got? No, but he had the partnership with Cueller and Bougherra which worked, and it enabled him to strengthen elsewhere. If Gerrard sees Alves and Goldson as a partnership that works, and it works, it means he can strengthen elsewhere. Its all relative to how the manager sees 1. What he can get from what he currently has and 2. What he can use the resources for elsewhere.

Ad for your last point, again Im not making excuses for players, but pinning it on one who played 50% of games is a cop out, the players have to take a share of the blame, but so does the board, and more importantly the 2 clueless, incompetent, shitebag managers we had, 1 of whom who made bizarre decisions and treated the fans like mugs, the other was fucked off to Mexico because he was useless.

There was a hundred things to blame before we get to Alves about last season.
 
Polar bear said:
Weirs positional sense,and timing were far superior to that of Alves though.:)
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Haha. I knew someone would say that when I posted it. I think Weir will hold up much better physically, which is why it probably is time for Alves to go, but as far as their attributes go, Weir wasn’t better in any way.
 
Buffalo said:
Every player no matter age gets injuries, maybe his body is broken although im sure our medical staff know better than us and will act and advise accordingly.

Lets not pretend he didn't feature much after St Johnstone because he was "comedy shit" , a game BTW where Danny Wilson was as culpable, he barely featured because Graeme Murty was the most incompetent manager we could have had who played players he liked, players who wouldn't stand up to him, if performances were the be all for Murty 6 or 7 players would never have played for the club again.

No one said rebuild to babysit Alves, you rebuild to your strengths, was Weir the best CH Smith could have got? No, but he had the partnership with Cueller and Bougherra which worked, and it enabled him to strengthen elsewhere. If Gerrard sees Alves and Goldson as a partnership that works, and it works, it means he can strengthen elsewhere. Its all relative to how the manager sees 1. What he can get from what he currently has and 2. What he can use the resources for elsewhere.

Ad for your last point, again Im not making excuses for players, but pinning it on one who played 50% of games is a cop out, the players have to take a share of the blame, but so does the board, and more importantly the 2 clueless, incompetent, shitebag managers we had, 1 of whom who made bizarre decisions and treated the fans like mugs, the other was fucked off to Mexico because he was useless.

There was a hundred things to blame before we get to Alves about last season.
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He missed games for us he is kicking on 40 - you are claiming we need players who will play...thats not a profile of a player who fits that criteria.

No it wasnt just the shit performance v St J he was also.....injured.

There is no point talking about Weir...different time, style of football and player - we have moved on football has changed - we have two dynamic FB's who bomb on now thats how football is now in the main.

Nah Alves would be near the top...big wage earner - shit return...

This is all moot to be fair...he will be away
 
Jacrispy said:
Haha. I knew someone would say that when I posted it. I think Weir will hold up much better physically, which is why it probably is time for Alves to go, but as far as their attributes go, Weir wasn’t better in any way.
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Weir was hardly ever injured which helps as you get older but the main reason was our style of football under Walter suited him perfectly, and it would have suited Alves as well, we were far more defensive and far less prone to leaving ageing slow centre halfs exposed and instead played to their strengths.
 
Barrymoped said:
Weir was hardly ever injured which helps as you get older but the main reason was our style of football under Walter suited him perfectly, and it would have suited Alves as well, we were far more defensive and far less prone to leaving ageing slow centre halfs exposed and instead played to their strengths.
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Absolutely.

The key was Walter, an experienced defensively astute manager with some common sense. He’d have never have had a 36 year old veteran centre back in beside the other CH’s we have, and he certainly wouldn’t have had him flanked by two full backs who spent more time getting caught up the other end of the pitch than defending.

Ps, doesn’t matter who we bring in to play centre half next season if we’re still going to have Tav and John playing as they do now, because we’ll continue to leak goals frequently.
 
Jacrispy said:
Haha. I knew someone would say that when I posted it. I think Weir will hold up much better physically, which is why it probably is time for Alves to go, but as far as their attributes go, Weir wasn’t better in any way.
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Not better in the eyes of world football.

But infinitely better in a Rangers jersey.

A bit like John Brown was better than Basile Boli.
 
Needed a run of games and a competent manager.

I’m sure OptaJoao (Opta for the Portuguese speaking community) on Twitter had posted that he made more clearances than any other Rangers defender last year (33) which, combined with his low(ish) number of games, blows any argument of positional sense out the water.

I’d probably struggle to hold a conversation with anyone who can’t see what he can offer the team.
 
I like Bruno. He might not be first choice in SGs team but would be useful to keep as a sub or cover for injuries.
When he has decent cover in front of him he would be OK.
 
stillAlwaysblue said:
I like Bruno. He might not be first choice in SGs team but would be useful to keep as a sub or cover for injuries.
When he has decent cover in front of him he would be OK.
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We played a system with no genuine committed defensive midfielder and relied upon our two full back for about 70% of our attacking play.

You could have put anyone in there and we’d have struggled, Murty’s tactics were mind blowing at times. I’ve never seen a more exposed Rangers backline.
 
dh1963 said:
Not better in the eyes of world football.

But infinitely better in a Rangers jersey.

A bit like John Brown was better than Basile Boli.
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Yeah I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. He played in an infinitely superior Rangers side under a manager infinitely superior to everyone we’ve been stuck with since he departed.
 
songsofglory said:
False.
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Bates rarely let us down. His only poor game was the last day of the season at Easter Road.

Alves, meanwhile, was rarely anything other than poor.

It's embarrassing for Alves that it's even a debate tbh as Alves, quite frankly, should have been blowing someone like David Bates away.
 
Alves was our best centre half based on reputation but not our best centre half. There’s a big difference.
 
Say what you want about Wilson and Bates but they turned up when needed.

The amount of games Alves missed with strains did the board nut in.

He's just old and here for a payday.
He seen the club coming.
 
Diocletian said:
Maybe he did. I seem to recall people saying Alves shat it from the mentally challengeds.
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Alves gave me the impression that he found it hard to get interested in being here in general.
I don't think he would shit his self from anyone.I think the combination of age and not knowing what the Scottish game was really like went against him.
 
Big Bawz Baloo said:
Alves gave me the impression that he found it hard to get interested in being here in general.
I don't think he would shit his self from anyone.I think the combination of age and not knowing what the Scottish game was really like went against him.
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Exactly. I don't think he cares enough about us to shit himself about anything that happens here.
But you're talking like he's left. Isn't he still our player?
I'd get rid if possible.
 
Diocletian said:
Maybe he did. I seem to recall people saying Alves shat it from the mentally challengeds.
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I don't know if I would say he "shat it" from the mentally challengeds but if you look at his record against them last season:

Missed the first Old Firm game through injury and didn't even bother staying in the country for it.

Hobbled out of the second Old Firm game of the season after about 15-20 minutes through injury.

Played, not very well, in the third Old Firm game of the season - a game that turned when Bates got injured and the bombscare brothers Cardoso and Alves ended up as our centre back pair.

Tried to go off injured late on in the fourth Old Firm game of the season at Hampden but, having made all our subs, was forced to stay on.

I can't even remember what part he played in the 5-0 game at the end of the season. I think he phoned in sick again.

You can see where the accusations come from. It's hardly the record of a guy we can' trust or rely on.
 
Big Bawz Baloo said:
Alves gave me the impression that he found it hard to get interested in being here in general.
I don't think he would shit his self from anyone.I think the combination of age and not knowing what the Scottish game was really like went against him.
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I don't think he was worried about playing players/teams.

I think, knowing his body is breaking down, he was worried about getting injured and missing the World Cup.

He played all season like he was shit scared to go in hard incase he ended up with a bad injury.
 
Amato Turn said:
I don't know if I would say he "shat it" from the mentally challengeds but if you look at his record against them last season:

Missed the first Old Firm game through injury and didn't even bother staying in the country for it.

Hobbled out of the second Old Firm game of the season after about 15-20 minutes through injury.

Played, not very well, in the third Old Firm game of the season - a game that turned when Bates got injured and the bombscare brothers Cardoso and Alves ended up as our centre back pair.

Tried to go off injured late on in the fourth Old Firm game of the season at Hampden but, having made all our subs, was forced to stay on.

I can't even remember what part he played in the 5-0 game at the end of the season. I think he phoned in sick again.

You can see where the accusations come from. It's hardly the record of a guy we can' trust or rely on.
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I agree. Whether he genuinely shat it or not is beside the point: he's never been up for the fight with us.
 
People measure Alves against their expectations of a veteran who's played at the top level, and Bates against their expectations of a young boy from Raith Rovers - strip all that away and there's no argument that Alves wasn't the best centre back at the club last season. Faint praise but he's head and shoulders above the rest.
 
Amato Turn said:
I don't think he was worried about playing players/teams.

I think, knowing his body is breaking down, he was worried about getting injured and missing the World Cup.

He played all season like he was shit scared to go in hard incase he ended up with a bad injury.
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Probably didn't realise that it's difficult to play the Scottish game.Too fast and don't get time on the ball.Alot of good players have failed miserably here because they misjudged our game.
 
final_straws said:
I actually thought Alves was poor positionally on many occasions last season (surprisingly so).

Weir was suited to a Walter style of set up (and yes was helped by cb partner) and was brought in as he slotted in perfectly. Weir was also far better at interventions and reading the game than Alves at this stage in his career.

However I can't see Gerrard adopting such a style nor do I think we should be adopting our system to fit a centre half who looked completely done last season when the ball was on the deck. Age has just gotten the better of him
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and yet hes going to world cup and earned his 90th cap.... seriously
 
I would be surprised if we are not looking to move Alves on, the wages we are paying could be better spent.

He should have played more than what he did considering the other options we had
 
Deprecating Alves while Portugal keep a blank sheet seems to lack of perspective. And only injury should have caused Martin to be picked in front of him. As baffling as Murty's 'tactics'. Full backs expected to drive forward & no midfield protection for our back line. A ridiculous state of affairs.
 
Jacrispy said:
Absolutely.

The key was Walter, an experienced defensively astute manager with some common sense. He’d have never have had a 36 year old veteran centre back in beside the other CH’s we have, and he certainly wouldn’t have had him flanked by two full backs who spent more time getting caught up the other end of the pitch than defending.

Ps, doesn’t matter who we bring in to play centre half next season if we’re still going to have Tav and John playing as they do now, because we’ll continue to leak goals frequently.
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Walter built a team which would offer Weir the protection he needed and that got the best out of him. He would probably have been tore apart if he played in this Rangers team. Walter usually had a minimum of one holding midfielder protecting the back four and sometimes two. We also had Papac at left back who although he could get forward he was first and foremost a defensive minded full back. Whittaker was attacking but he often played right or left mid and Broadfoot would play as a defensive minded full back.
 
Considering the massive salary we are probably paying Alves and the level he must be capable of to have won what he has won, I'm surprised so many are willing to make excuses for him. For any player on the kind of money he is on, we need much, much more than we got last season.

A bigger worry is that, to me, it didn't look like his heart was in it a lot of the time. Just my perception and that could be wrong.

If we get a reasonable offer to take him off our hands this summer, I would consider it. At the same time, wouldn't be too upset if he was still at the club next season.
 
Big Bawz Baloo said:
Probably didn't realise that it's difficult to play the Scottish game.Too fast and don't get time on the ball.Alot of good players have failed miserably here because they misjudged our game.
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Indeed.

The Scottish league is shit but it's rarely easy - particularly if you're Rangers and it's a Cup Final every week and particularly if you're Rangers in the current climate (where the hostility we face/scandalous decisions given against us is at an all time high).

I think he saw us as one last payday but, in that case, he'd have been better going to China or the Middle East or MLS.
 
I missed all the body language nonsense after Bates went off injured twenty minutes into an Old Firm game - the only difference being he did it in the process of conceding a goal.
 
Amato Turn said:
Indeed.

The Scottish league is shit but it's rarely easy - particularly if you're Rangers and it's a Cup Final every week and particularly if you're Rangers in the current climate (where the hostility we face/scandalous decisions given against us is at an all time high).

I think he saw us as one last payday but, in that case, he'd have been better going to China or the Middle East or MLS.
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Bang on.
 
25k a week on a guy who yer never sure will call off at the last minute.

Bates recovering time from a shocking ankle knock should have shamed Alves.
 
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