GovanFront4
Well-Known Member
I never seen the goal last night but I genuinely struggle to get annoyed about that goal being chopped off. It was a clear foul in the build up.
Was it this 1?Wasn't there a German game where a team scored but then VAR pulled it back to the other end of the pitch and awarded a penalty to the other side?
Something like that anyway.
Semi final I think it was. Soutb Africa game?I thought there was one in the African Nations, can’t remember it though.
no I know, I get that… but you’ll have ones that are clearly outside the box from the get go and never looked at for a penalty that are virtually the same place - you need to then argue that effectively because we looked at something for a penalty that’s “more” of a free kick than one that we didn’t in almost the same spot…If it’s a penalty check and it’s deemed outside the box then award the freekick instead. I’m not suggesting freekicks in the midfield etc should be checked ffs
I think the issue comes from perceived inconsistency - which if you’re comparing like for like, would be fair enoughI never seen the goal last night but I genuinely struggle to get annoyed about that goal being chopped off. It was a clear foul in the build up.
They do.Apparently it was too far back for VAR to overturn the goal and award Chelsea the foul according to the officials. The ball was in the back of the net after two passes. When you compare it to Dessers goal disallowed in the recent Old Firm game it’s another decision that leaves you scratching your head as to wether or not refs up here just make it up as they go along.
Thank you. @WinkieWATP kudos to you.Man Utd got a penalty after the ref blew the fulltime whistle. Against Brighton last season possibly?
I've seen nothing at all to the effect that it 'was too far back' so I'm dubious about that. Seems its only the opinion of the lassie on TV. The most common reports I've seen indicate that Chelsea had legitimate claims for a foul but that it wasn't given. Nothing more.Has it been confirmed anywhere that it was too far back to be deemed a foul? I'm not sure it has, and it was definitely checked.
It looked like a foul from one angle and not from the other.
I “think” PGMOL have a slightly different stipulation on that with regards to when and where things can be brought back in comparison to IFAB
I assume the SFA still revert to IFAB
I said at the time of the Dessers goal, that probably stands in England but is disallowed in Europe…
It’s probably an issue with the way the English do it and how much English football were exposed to up here leading to confusion on interpretations
I hear you, but I also seen the incident in the African nations semi final when Nigeria broke up the pitch scoring to make it 2-0 and what we thought booked them a place in the final. Next thing, not only is the goal ruled out, it goes up the other end for a penalty to South Africa.Apparently it was too far back for VAR to overturn the goal and award Chelsea the foul according to the officials. The ball was in the back of the net after two passes. When you compare it to Dessers goal disallowed in the recent Old Firm game it’s another decision that leaves you scratching your head as to wether or not refs up here just make it up as they go along.
Seen that. Just wish I read through the replies pre rant.Happened in AFCoN semi final earlier in the year I’m sure
Although, that’s a slightly different situation as the potential penalty would be checked regardless of how long before the goal it occurred - we’ve seen them go back 2/3 minutes to penalties if the ball hasn’t gone out of play
A foul in the app is a bit different in that sense
@WinkieWATP @TQ3 @GreigC @El Jock Grande SabiaWasn't there a German game where a team scored but then VAR pulled it back to the other end of the pitch and awarded a penalty to the other side?
Something like that anyway.
There was. Sure Ghana were involved. Guy fouled but ref waved play on, think Ghana went up the park and scored. Mad celebrations, VAR pulled it back to the original foul which was deemed in the box, penalty awarded and scored.I thought there was one in the African Nations, can’t remember it though.
That’s on the linesman to flag it at the end of the attack.What I don’t like is that you can have a situation like on Sunday where hearts get a corner after a player is blatantly offside. If they score from that corner the goal would have been given. Var is riddled with inconsistencies like that
They said in the commentary that VAR checked it and didn’t think it was a foul.Apparently it was too far back for VAR to overturn the goal and award Chelsea the foul according to the officials. The ball was in the back of the net after two passes. When you compare it to Dessers goal disallowed in the recent Old Firm game it’s another decision that leaves you scratching your head as to wether or not refs up here just make it up as they go along.
I don’t thing PGMOL have it right at the moment either thoughThat’s on the linesman to flag it at the end of the attack.
Up here it’s becoming clear the officials are hiding behind VAR and waiting for it to identify decisions rather than make them in play. It’s an absolute abuse/misuse of the system.
Notably Red Watch the other day was interesting as it looked at the Nottingham Forest controversy.
Dermot Gallagher was at pains to point out how down South they are actively trying to minimise VAR intervention in decisions and not re-referee games from the VAR station.
He more than once mentioned decisions that are given all the time North of the border but that wouldn’t be given down there, primarily handballs/minimal contact penalties.
It is literally the case of different refereeing standards ruining things.
Either that or refs down there make it up as they go along.Apparently it was too far back for VAR to overturn the goal and award Chelsea the foul according to the officials. The ball was in the back of the net after two passes. When you compare it to Dessers goal disallowed in the recent Old Firm game it’s another decision that leaves you scratching your head as to wether or not refs up here just make it up as they go along.
This one always sticks out for me having watched the game at the time.What is the furthest back VAR has went to rectify an error?
I've seen nothing at all to the effect that it 'was too far back' so I'm dubious about that. Seems its only the opinion of the lassie on TV. The most common reports I've seen indicate that Chelsea had legitimate claims for a foul but that it wasn't given. Nothing more.
Slavia again. They featured in the one I posted back at post #63 as well. They 'benefitted' that time as well.This one always sticks out for me having watched the game at the time.
Slavia player challenged in the box. Inter break away and score at the other end....before VAR intervenes and gives a penalty to Slavia. Which Soucek scored.
34mins on the clock top left
Not the rules thoughI never seen the goal last night but I genuinely struggle to get annoyed about that goal being chopped off. It was a clear foul in the build up.
Another anomaly in application of VAR was Butland's point-blank save from Shankland at Hampden in the first half. Shankland was clearly offside; not a disputable toenail decision, but clear for all to see. No offside given.What I don’t like is that you can have a situation like on Sunday where hearts get a corner after a player is blatantly offside. If they score from that corner the goal would have been given. Var is riddled with inconsistencies like that
You're probably right, but what I would say is that it at least feels like they are trying to find an appropriate balance to make the system work better for the flow of the game and to avoid it over-interfering.I don’t thing PGMOL have it right at the moment either though
The balance is probably somewhere in the middle - which generally seems to be where UEFA are
It didn’t, an opposition player would either have to gain possession or pass it to a team mate for that to happen.Dessers one was a shocker as not only was it a ridiculous time to go back, the keeper save on the first shot made it a new phase of play, so should never have been considered even if he clattered him and the ref didn't see it as a foul
Actual cheating
They 100% can rule out goals due to a foul the build up.Not the rules though
Which is the point behind its being disallowed as soon as the attempted clearance is a new phase of play and should have only being checked till that point as although he made an arse of the clearance of be had put it out for a corner then its a corner.What I don’t like is that you can have a situation like on Sunday where hearts get a corner after a player is blatantly offside. If they score from that corner the goal would have been given. Var is riddled with inconsistencies like that
Think it's worded poorly, as I've seen it happen in different competitions.This is from the VAR FAQ page...
"From what point does the VAR check incidents leading to a penalty or goal?
The VAR will only check the attacking possession phase that led to the penalty or goal.
The starting point will be limited to the immediate phase. The VAR may not go back to when the attacking team gained possession.
The VAR will consider the ability of the opposing defence to reset, and the momentum of the attack."
So does that mean they were wrong to look at the foul that led to us winning possession and scoring from?
That’s poor wordingThis is from the VAR FAQ page...
"From what point does the VAR check incidents leading to a penalty or goal?
The VAR will only check the attacking possession phase that led to the penalty or goal.
The starting point will be limited to the immediate phase. The VAR may not go back to when the attacking team gained possession.
The VAR will consider the ability of the opposing defence to reset, and the momentum of the attack."
So does that mean they were wrong to look at the foul that led to us winning possession and scoring from?
Something similar happened at Chelsea v Spurs where Chelsea scored, it was knocked off by VAR for offside, but VAR also noted that a Spurs player had fouled a Chelsea player, and the result was offside goal, penalty to Chelsea and the Spurs player red carded.Wasn't there a German game where a team scored but then VAR pulled it back to the other end of the pitch and awarded a penalty to the other side?
Something like that anyway.
Funny that isn't it, how its always seems to be a certain team that continually benefit from this "incompetence" in Scotland. It must just be a coincidence.part of the issue up here is the inconsistency
Dessers tries to nick the ball, gets kicked - given as a foul
1 week later, Turnbull deliberately places his foot between ball & defender (with no attempt to play the ball - in contract to Dessers) purely to draw the foul and the penalty was given
in our case - the "interceptor" is punished
1 week later - the defender is punished
both cases a certain team benefitted
Up here, they trawl back through VAR to look for something, anything, to disallow our goals scored.
45 minutes - at the New Year game to find a reason to get Willie Collum off the hook!What is the furthest back VAR has went to rectify an error?
part of the issue up here is the inconsistency
Dessers tries to nick the ball, gets kicked - given as a foul
1 week later, Turnbull deliberately places his foot between ball & defender (with no attempt to play the ball - in contract to Dessers) purely to draw the foul and the penalty was given
in our case - the "interceptor" is punished
1 week later - the defender is punished
both cases a certain team benefitted
45 minutes - at the New Year game to find a reason to get Willie Collum off the hook!
It’s bemusing that in 3 separate incidents in OF games in circa the last year goals have been chopped off for Rangers and the beneficiary has been Celtic FC.I “think” PGMOL have a slightly different stipulation on that with regards to when and where things can be brought back in comparison to IFAB
I assume the SFA still revert to IFAB
I said at the time of the Dessers goal, that probably stands in England but is disallowed in Europe…
It’s probably an issue with the way the English do it and how much English football were exposed to up here leading to confusion on interpretations
Okay mate…It’s bemusing that in 3 separate incidents in OF games in circa the last year goals have been chopped off for Rangers and the beneficiary has been Celtic FC.
In all instances the referees/VAR have been able to justify decisions which are difficult to understand.
It seems to me a very unlikely scenario that one team is the beneficiary on 3 occasions.virtually on a game to game basis.
It’s bemusing that in 3 separate incidents in OF games in circa the last year goals have been chopped off for Rangers and the beneficiary has been Celtic FC.
In all instances the referees/VAR have been able to justify decisions which are difficult to understand.
It seems to me a very unlikely scenario that one team is the beneficiary on 3 occasions.virtually on a game to game basis.
If they can't find anything I would put it past them going back to a previous gameUp here, they trawl back through VAR to look for something, anything, to disallow our goals scored.
Ok let’s assume or agree the last Dessers decision was correctly given as free kick.Well if a decision is to be made what do you want the ref or VAR to do? They got the Dessers one right in the last game, they gave us a penalty for Silva and they got their penalty right so it was 3 correct decisions. The handball at the Piggery was a stonewaller but IF Sima was offside then the handball doesn't matter the issue with that whole incident was it took them nearly 40 minutes to tell us it was offside.
People keep mentioning the Alfie goal that got ruled out there last season if Clancy says he's ruled out for a push and the replays show 2 hands on the back of Johnston which backs Clancy's decision up whether you agree with it or not what do people want VAR to do?
The only debatable out with the Sima one has been the Dessers one in the first game of the season with him and Lagerbielke.
Ok let’s assume or agree the last Dessers decision was correctly given as free kick.
Take the other decisions the first one you mention was not one of my contentious ones.
However the fact that Collum on Var ignored the procedures.
The offside part only came to light after the game when out the blue it turned out there was an offside decision.
The fact Var procedure was circumvented is an issue.
The Alfie goal was a stick on goal.
Fetus was jostling for position within the penalty box and was hands on Morelos.
Morelos reciprocated and any hands on by Morelos was minimal.
There was not a significant push and physical contact is part of football.
How that could be attributed to foul play by either of them is outrageous.
The Dessers incident where Roofe scored after Lagerbielge knocked the ball to far in front of him which allowed Dessers to gain possession of the ball without contact is outrageous as well.
Maybe you could outline an incident where Celtic FC were not the beneficiary of a major decision and had a goal denied during the same time period.?
Something he’s very good at, and unfortunately we’re not…On the Alfie goal that's your opinion I don't think it's a foul either and it's one of them Johnston has bought from Clancy. If Clancy tells VAR he's ruled it out for a push and replays back him up then only option is to go with the onfield decision otherwise VAR is re-refereeing the game.
I don't watch many of their games outwith us playing them so I couldn't tell you for your last point but there's a reason they want rid of VAR and it's cause decisions go against them.
I was saying this at the time, it would have been better for the ball to hit the net, then for VAR to rule it out and we get the ball. Fact butland makes great save and we clear for a corner gives them them the advantage.What I don’t like is that you can have a situation like on Sunday where hearts get a corner after a player is blatantly offside. If they score from that corner the goal would have been given. Var is riddled with inconsistencies like that
Think it was in the recent AFCON, wasn't it?Wasn't there a German game where a team scored but then VAR pulled it back to the other end of the pitch and awarded a penalty to the other side?
Something like that anyway.
See post #63, the one I was thinking of was Czech. Though it seems there’s been a few that the same thing happened in.Think it was in the recent AFCON, wasn't it?
Every timeUp here, they trawl back through VAR to look for something, anything, to disallow our goals scored.