Offside was never about 'clear and obvious errors' though. The assumption is that offside is a factual decision and all goals should be checked for it.Offside is the biggest bugbear for me. When you see it in action, it's subjective and open to abuse on tight calls. That needs to be addressed. On top of that, in Scotland we don't have enough camera angles at all grounds to make a call on whether a big toe is offside or not. It's pure guesswork at times. In general though, money shouldn't come into it. It's down to the competency of the officials. If they stuck to the 'clear and obvious error' principle it was supposed to be, it would be a start.
To me, what you've done here is, first to disagree with the post you quoted, then completely agree with his point, but simply in greater detail?Offside was never about 'clear and obvious errors' though. The assumption is that offside is a factual decision and all goals should be checked for it.
There are obviously doubts over the accuracy of the camera frame rates and the human error in clicking on the exact right pixel that is the furthest forward body part of the players involved, so it is limited in how accurate it can be. It feels like it should be more automated and have error bands included that give the benefit to the attacker if the decision falls within the error bands.
That's exactly it. The decisions that are open to interpretation always seem toIn the end, it all comes down to human interpretation of VAR, and as we've witnessed repeatedly, it cannot be trusted up here not to be manipulated to ensure it suits Celtc's interest.
Transparent attempt by two Tim writers to deflect attention from the brazen cheating of Scottish officials,
Every reasonable person accepts that mistakes can be made - the central issue is that one club repeatedly gets the benefit of any doubt,
I took as if he was saying VAR was only supposed to be checking for clear and obvious errors with offside, which was never the case.To me, what you've done here is, first to disagree with the post you quoted, then completely agree with his point, but simply in greater detail?
This is the big thing. Other clubs are being robbed as well but just don't seem interested in calling it out.Transparent attempt by two Tim writers to deflect attention from the brazen cheating of Scottish officials,
Every reasonable person accepts that mistakes can be made - the central issue is that one club repeatedly gets the benefit of any doubt,
Indeed, but as I say, when you see it in action it's far from factual. There are 3 points of subjectivity. When the ball was played. What point of the body the vertical line should be drawn from the body of the attacker. What point of the body the vertical line should be drawn from the body of the defender. Apparently there are 25 frames per second in the film viewed by VAR. Assessing exactly where the bodies were to within millimetres (and that's what we're talking on occasion) in relation to exactly when the ball was kicked, I'd suggest is virtually impossible. Then you see the vertical lines being moved left and right to what they think is the extremity of the goalscoring part of the body for the attacker and the extremity of the defender's body. Only after all that manual (and subjective) work is done are the offside lines drawn. So yes, I do think we need error bands, such as there being a clear gap in the offside lines before an attacker is judged offside. As I've seen posted elsewhere, judging someone to be a millimetre offside is not what the offside law was introduced for. Before VAR, officials were told the attacker was to be given the benefit of any doubt. I think we should get back to that. As you say, it's not a factual decision, so unless or until that becomes the case, I think they should stop pretending they can make these really tight judgements with complete accuracy.Offside was never about 'clear and obvious errors' though. The assumption is that offside is a factual decision and all goals should be checked for it.
There are obviously doubts over the accuracy of the camera frame rates and the human error in clicking on the exact right pixel that is the furthest forward body part of the players involved, so it is limited in how accurate it can be. It feels like it should be more automated and have error bands included that give the benefit to the attacker if the decision falls within the error bands.
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/03/20/statement-on-var-decision-against-aberdeen/This is the big thing. Other clubs are being robbed as well but just don't seem interested in calling it out.
When they released the audio for the disallowed goal in the Spurs v Liverpool game, it sounded a chaotic shambles and I wonder if the way they communicate with each other is part of the problem
I know rugby is a slower game, but they seem ro have got it right especially the way the officials communicate when the game is going on.
Aye, but apart fae all of them?https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/03/20/statement-on-var-decision-against-aberdeen/
https://www.afc.co.uk/2024/04/10/club-statement-video-assistant-referees/
https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/19/club-statement-var-usage-aberdeen-a-/
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/spo...e-st-johnstone-var-crawford-allan-motherwell/
When they released the audio for the disallowed goal in the Spurs v Liverpool game, it sounded a chaotic shambles and I wonder if the way they communicate with each other is part of the problem
I know rugby is a slower game, but they seem ro have got it right especially the way the officials communicate when the game is going on.
It highlights the tinted-specs/fickle nature of football fans.Aye, but apart fae all of them?
Top post imo, and is similar to what I was getting at on another thread.It highlights the tinted-specs/fickle nature of football fans.
Everyone thinks these things only go against their club or for their rivals. It's nonsense and people bin the facts to suit their own reality.
The examples above:
Motherwell complain abour decisions going against them in favour of Aberdeen
Aberdeen complain about decisions that went in Livingston's favour
Hibs complain about decisions going in favour of Aberdeen
St Johnstone complain about decisions that went in favour of Motherwell
That's not even taking into account the clusterfck of Rangers/Celtic and the narratives/decisions between us.
The reality is we have a far below standard of refereeing going on, lower investment in the technology and general ineptitude without an open appetite for accepting responsibility and being better.
All clubs are going to be on the receiving end of bad decisions both in their favour and against. It's the frequency of it that is alarming and the fact that any focus on it seems to be twisted into "poor refs being targeted", rather than "yes, it's not what it should be and here's the plan to improve it".
Then the ramping up of "just bin it" as a more convenient line, because it's easier to make VAR as a concept the problem instead of owning the poor execution and bettering the game - which is Scottish football to a tee.
It highlights the tinted-specs/fickle nature of football fans.
Everyone thinks these things only go against their club or for their rivals. It's nonsense and people bin the facts to suit their own reality.
The examples above:
Motherwell complain abour decisions going against them in favour of Aberdeen
Aberdeen complain about decisions that went in Livingston's favour
Hibs complain about decisions going in favour of Aberdeen
St Johnstone complain about decisions that went in favour of Motherwell
That's not even taking into account the clusterfck of Rangers/Celtic and the narratives/decisions between us.
The reality is we have a far below standard of refereeing going on, lower investment in the technology and general ineptitude without an open appetite for accepting responsibility and being better.
All clubs are going to be on the receiving end of bad decisions both in their favour and against. It's the frequency of it that is alarming and the fact that any focus on it seems to be twisted into "poor refs being targeted", rather than "yes, it's not what it should be and here's the plan to improve it".
Then the ramping up of "just bin it" as a more convenient line, because it's easier to make VAR as a concept the problem instead of owning the poor execution and bettering the game - which is Scottish football to a tee.
They got a penalty and a man sent off against Hearts after VAR?I'd love to know what VAR decisions have went in our favour against the yahoos?
in fact, I'd love to know about any VAR decisions that go against the yahoos?
They got a penalty and a man sent off against Hearts after VAR?
Isn't it two?That's one.
The media in this country only go full on when a contentious decision goes against that mob.That won’t be happening in any other country in the world.The point that mhob are missing or maybe don’t want to see is that in Germany, England, Spain etc they get things wrong because of course they do but it isn’t every week or several times a week like in Scotland.
And also in some countries like Germany referees come out and explain decisions and don’t hide from them
Bunch of ratbag scummy cheating tims. IMO.I would say pre VAR linesmen would get offsides wrong all the time, probably had a accuracy of 50% on the really tight ones.
Even if VAR gets the odd one wrong we have still massively increased the % of correct offside calls with it.
You have a point there, but it really should have been the job of the ref to officiate correctly.Isn't it two?
Our penalty against them recently, there's three.
I find it mental that every conversation about VAR or referee standards on here boils down to 'Celtic minded corruption'.
It's obvious to anyone who watches a decent amount of football outside the SPL that bad refeering and terrible use of VAR is not the sole preserve of our league. Therefore, it is just possible that refs being on the payroll of Peter Lawell might not actually be a real thing.
A mental way of looking at things i know, but worth considering.....
The scum want it gone, for good reason. We must fight to keep VAR.
They have had it work for them In every OF game, there is no doubt about that. But over a season, it has got us a number of decisions we would not have had.
Agree mate.You have a point there, but it really should have been the job of the ref to officiate correctly.
It highlights the tinted-specs/fickle nature of football fans.
Everyone thinks these things only go against their club or for their rivals. It's nonsense and people bin the facts to suit their own reality.
The examples above:
Motherwell complain abour decisions going against them in favour of Aberdeen
Aberdeen complain about decisions that went in Livingston's favour
Hibs complain about decisions going in favour of Aberdeen
St Johnstone complain about decisions that went in favour of Motherwell
That's not even taking into account the clusterfck of Rangers/Celtic and the narratives/decisions between us.
The reality is we have a far below standard of refereeing going on, lower investment in the technology and general ineptitude without an open appetite for accepting responsibility and being better.
All clubs are going to be on the receiving end of bad decisions both in their favour and against. It's the frequency of it that is alarming and the fact that any focus on it seems to be twisted into "poor refs being targeted", rather than "yes, it's not what it should be and here's the plan to improve it".
Then the ramping up of "just bin it" as a more convenient line, because it's easier to make VAR as a concept the problem instead of owning the poor execution and bettering the game - which is Scottish football to a tee.
Why should the benefit be given to an attacker. I don't think defenders would be best pleased at that idea or managers who instructed defenders to push out to catch players offside.Offside was never about 'clear and obvious errors' though. The assumption is that offside is a factual decision and all goals should be checked for it.
There are obviously doubts over the accuracy of the camera frame rates and the human error in clicking on the exact right pixel that is the furthest forward body part of the players involved, so it is limited in how accurate it can be. It feels like it should be more automated and have error bands included that give the benefit to the attacker if the decision falls within the error bands.
Allegiances are not in the public domain.
It’s a shocking post, it doesn’t in any way shape or form cater to conspiracy theories, or point out any dodgy decisions that we’ve got, or that have gone against the mob from the east endTop post imo, and is similar to what I was getting at on another thread.
Problem being is Scottish football is a sheep in the grand scheme of things, I can't see them being pro-active in trying to fix the issues, train and work on them and will instead do whatever they are told by others. Couple in with all you have posted about the standards and investments we have a complete clusterfuck.
Maybe be better to ask what VAR decisions go against them that could be incorrect or at least controversial and end up costing them points. I can't recall any.I'd love to know what VAR decisions have went in our favour against the yahoos?
in fact, I'd love to know about any VAR decisions that go against the yahoos?
Why can't there be poor refereeing in general and favouritism to Celtic?I find it mental that every conversation about VAR or referee standards on here boils down to 'Celtic minded corruption'.
It's obvious to anyone who watches a decent amount of football outside the SPL that bad refeering and terrible use of VAR is not the sole preserve of our league. Therefore, it is just possible that refs being on the payroll of Peter Lawell might not actually be a real thing.
A mental way of looking at things i know, but worth considering.....