Injuries and squad a rubbish excuse

Hearts and Kilmarnock have taken points off them

But both Hearts and Kilmarnock have strikers up front who score goals- that is the difference
 
jimbo 08 said:
Correct
Our poor tun of form coincided with Cortes getting injured at Kilmarnock and Sima not being available since January
No decent width hampered us and made us have to go more through the middle
A team changing almost by the day due to injuries being picked up

Just listened to Roy Keane on sky talking about players being injured for longer than they probably should at Man Utd. If a team is doing well its funny how two week two or three game injuries are exactly that but when things aren’t going well they seem to last double the time
Its a mentality thing
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I said sinilar a few weeks ago. Their team has a hunger to get back from injury that we don't. Another area they are better than us right now.

Our players are weak. The clear out annoy come quick enough.
 
rex555 said:
Kilmarnock have beat them twice this season. Hearts have beat them home and away without conceding. Clement has had injuries to contend with and yes, the players he inherited need improved upon, but if you look at the three games he's had against them, he had plenty of match fit players available to choose from to setup a starting team stronger than the Hearts and Killie starting XIs that had success. Anyone saying otherwise is sticking to the narrative that Beale left after seven games and left Clement with a Sunday league squad incapable of beating Celtic. One poster said, "walking football team". Rubbish.

Clement can be forgiven for setting us up wrong in the December 2-1 game as it was his first, but the next two is unforgivable. With the same squad Beale left him with, we performed well in Europe and won a cup. I know all fans are just armchair managers (me included), but it was obvious we keep losing the game in midfield against them. 'Injuries and a team that's not his' is a rotten excuse (tho refereeing calls isn't).

Clement has had 40 odd games in charge of the squad in all competitions. No new manager should get a pass from criticism and blame for not winning a single old firm because they haven't had a summer transfer window and the chance to replace a full team with his own. Do you think he interviewed saying, "don't judge me on the rubbish squad that's here, I'll need my own players, especially to beat Celtic"? (Fine, you're hired).

Someone started a thread asking if the SC Final should be a "free hit"? Crazy. He shouldn't be replaced if he loses the final, but he should be tore into if he sets us up wrong again and we lose. Celtic aren't Barcelona. Their starting XI is marginally better at full strength compared to ours currently with injuries... but other teams found a way to beat that same Celtic team with players no better than our weakest lineup. Beale had three defeats in seven before he left, so yeah, Clement started with a disadvantage, but they've dropped points too and were always going to. He must win the Scottish cup. Three defeats is indefensible.
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TBH i never read your post, but having 3 left wingers out, 2 centre halfs along with a LB coming back and a striker injured, its not an excuse/
 
IbroxMainStand said:
I think Cortes looked OK before injury but given he missed out the Euro squad and Clement has played Silva in every big game so far I think it would have been Silva-Dessers-Sima. He would have been a good option but probably not starting.

In general we seem to hype up injured players, Roofe was the best finisher and striker at the club a few months ago when out but now he is back can't get any game time. Going back a few years people thought Jordan Rossiter if he could get fit would run the midfield.
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It has been mostly our impact in form players that got injured and held us back imo!
 
BB155 said:
Courts was a big loss as he was coming in to game. Danilo was being bored as the worst Brazilian footballer ever, then scored a couple and he was a hero. Sima blows hot and cold. I'm not suggesting they're not better than what we have but it's all still too be proven imo
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Disagree there, mate. Sima has proved he is a top player in this league. Rapid, powerful, works his socks off and can score.

With Danilo and Sima in the front three we could actually press their defence and disrupt the build up.
 
We played the 2nd half with 10 men,some would argue we played the full 90 with ten men.

But yes losing big players through injuries plays its part,hopefully this gets sorted for next season.
 
rex555 said:
Kilmarnock have beat them twice this season. Hearts have beat them home and away without conceding. Clement has had injuries to contend with and yes, the players he inherited need improved upon, but if you look at the three games he's had against them, he had plenty of match fit players available to choose from to setup a starting team stronger than the Hearts and Killie starting XIs that had success. Anyone saying otherwise is sticking to the narrative that Beale left after seven games and left Clement with a Sunday league squad incapable of beating Celtic. One poster said, "walking football team". Rubbish.

Clement can be forgiven for setting us up wrong in the December 2-1 game as it was his first, but the next two is unforgivable. With the same squad Beale left him with, we performed well in Europe and won a cup. I know all fans are just armchair managers (me included), but it was obvious we keep losing the game in midfield against them. 'Injuries and a team that's not his' is a rotten excuse (tho refereeing calls isn't).

Clement has had 40 odd games in charge of the squad in all competitions. No new manager should get a pass from criticism and blame for not winning a single old firm because they haven't had a summer transfer window and the chance to replace a full team with his own. Do you think he interviewed saying, "don't judge me on the rubbish squad that's here, I'll need my own players, especially to beat Celtic"? (Fine, you're hired).

Someone started a thread asking if the SC Final should be a "free hit"? Crazy. He shouldn't be replaced if he loses the final, but he should be tore into if he sets us up wrong again and we lose. Celtic aren't Barcelona. Their starting XI is marginally better at full strength compared to ours currently with injuries... but other teams found a way to beat that same Celtic team with players no better than our weakest lineup. Beale had three defeats in seven before he left, so yeah, Clement started with a disadvantage, but they've dropped points too and were always going to. He must win the Scottish cup. Three defeats is indefensible.
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Oh look, another ill thought out negative thread that is all over the place.

Injuries is a poor excuse??? Dearie me.
 
rex555 said:
Kilmarnock have beat them twice this season. Hearts have beat them home and away without conceding. Clement has had injuries to contend with and yes, the players he inherited need improved upon, but if you look at the three games he's had against them, he had plenty of match fit players available to choose from to setup a starting team stronger than the Hearts and Killie starting XIs that had success. Anyone saying otherwise is sticking to the narrative that Beale left after seven games and left Clement with a Sunday league squad incapable of beating Celtic. One poster said, "walking football team". Rubbish.

Clement can be forgiven for setting us up wrong in the December 2-1 game as it was his first, but the next two is unforgivable. With the same squad Beale left him with, we performed well in Europe and won a cup. I know all fans are just armchair managers (me included), but it was obvious we keep losing the game in midfield against them. 'Injuries and a team that's not his' is a rotten excuse (tho refereeing calls isn't).

Clement has had 40 odd games in charge of the squad in all competitions. No new manager should get a pass from criticism and blame for not winning a single old firm because they haven't had a summer transfer window and the chance to replace a full team with his own. Do you think he interviewed saying, "don't judge me on the rubbish squad that's here, I'll need my own players, especially to beat Celtic"? (Fine, you're hired).

Someone started a thread asking if the SC Final should be a "free hit"? Crazy. He shouldn't be replaced if he loses the final, but he should be tore into if he sets us up wrong again and we lose. Celtic aren't Barcelona. Their starting XI is marginally better at full strength compared to ours currently with injuries... but other teams found a way to beat that same Celtic team with players no better than our weakest lineup. Beale had three defeats in seven before he left, so yeah, Clement started with a disadvantage, but they've dropped points too and were always going to. He must win the Scottish cup. Three defeats is indefensible.
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It’s ironic that your avatar is a player who was a revelation in his first 6 months and then got injured. I bet you think we’d have benefited from having a fit Marco Negri for the duration of his contract.

Of course we have been damaged by losing key players. It’s absolutely crazy to say otherwise.
 
Having 8/9 players unavailable every week can’t make us competitive over a season. Our 1st choice front 3 of Cortes Danilo and Sima have been out since Christmas basically - how would they have got on without they re front 3 for 5 months!
 
Getting rid of Clement isn't an option we should even be considering as yet, but there's no getting away from it the Op has a point.
 
Ro55co said:
Having 8/9 players unavailable every week can’t make us competitive over a season. Our 1st choice front 3 of Cortes Danilo and Sima have been out since Christmas basically - how would they have got on without they re front 3 for 5 months!
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Danilo done nothing to suggest he would be first choice. In the league he had a conversion rate of 11% and a goal every 133 minutes. Dessers is 16% and every 142minutes.

Cortes has started 3 matches for us.

We have a first team squad of over thirty players.
 
Davie_Mitchell said:
It’s ironic that your avatar is a player who was a revelation in his first 6 months and then got injured. I bet you think we’d have benefited from having a fit Marco Negri for the duration of his contract.

Of course we have been damaged by losing key players. It’s absolutely crazy to say otherwise.
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Some of the threads started by so many folk after the final whistle yesterday have been bat shit mental in their desire to be negative.
Now we can't even take into account injuries because er, uhm, eh, Hearts & Killie have managed to beat them???
E.G our on form player Sima, firing in goals regularly, gets injured and is out for months and that is NOT and issue.
Feck sake.
 
Fergie90 said:
Celtic don't play the same way or treat the games against Kilmarnock or Hearts the same as an Old Firm so the comparison doesn't work.

Our game is a derby filled with hatred and the other games are run of the mill games.
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Yup. Celtic understand that these games are about fight, running and desire first, and talent takes over after that. Since 2016 we've only had one manager who understood that. My hope that Clement was the 2nd one took a bit of a dent yesterday.
 
Also worth keeping in mind that Mcinnes (who was 12mins away from not winning promotion in his first season at Kilmarnock) has now had several transfer windows to bring in players that are suited to his system and to train the others to work within that system. Give Clement that same timeframe and several windows and he too will have a team that plays in his style and can likely accommodate injuries much better. Rather than one which is already short on width/strikers before injuries.

As for Jack, mentioned above, he's clearly back from injury now. You can call that fit if you want but he's nowhere near fit enough for 90mins of top tier football and if you watched the footage from the game the other day he was well off the pace. Obviously a decent pre-season might sort him out but he very much looked like he is nearing the end now career wise.

That match fit aspect is something we also need to consider in our performances. It regularly takes a bit of time for players to get fully into their rhythm/match fitness after a significant injury and that period hampers us almost as much as them being out. A fully fit Sima for example was way better than the Sima we saw post injury (for a limited time).
 
joseph said:
Hearts and Kilmarnock have taken points off them

But both Hearts and Kilmarnock have strikers up front who score goals- that is the difference
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Dessers has scored 20 and has more goals than Shankland. Our striker is not the problem - having to score 3 goals because we’ve conceded 2 is.
 
Fergie90 said:
Celtic don't play the same way or treat the games against Kilmarnock or Hearts the same as an Old Firm so the comparison doesn't work.

Our game is a derby filled with hatred and the other games are run of the mill games.
Click to expand...
Ok.
So if that is the case, you don't bring a knife, to a gun fight.
 
rex555 said:
Kilmarnock have beat them twice this season. Hearts have beat them home and away without conceding. Clement has had injuries to contend with and yes, the players he inherited need improved upon, but if you look at the three games he's had against them, he had plenty of match fit players available to choose from to setup a starting team stronger than the Hearts and Killie starting XIs that had success. Anyone saying otherwise is sticking to the narrative that Beale left after seven games and left Clement with a Sunday league squad incapable of beating Celtic. One poster said, "walking football team". Rubbish.

Clement can be forgiven for setting us up wrong in the December 2-1 game as it was his first, but the next two is unforgivable. With the same squad Beale left him with, we performed well in Europe and won a cup. I know all fans are just armchair managers (me included), but it was obvious we keep losing the game in midfield against them. 'Injuries and a team that's not his' is a rotten excuse (tho refereeing calls isn't).

Clement has had 40 odd games in charge of the squad in all competitions. No new manager should get a pass from criticism and blame for not winning a single old firm because they haven't had a summer transfer window and the chance to replace a full team with his own. Do you think he interviewed saying, "don't judge me on the rubbish squad that's here, I'll need my own players, especially to beat Celtic"? (Fine, you're hired).

Someone started a thread asking if the SC Final should be a "free hit"? Crazy. He shouldn't be replaced if he loses the final, but he should be tore into if he sets us up wrong again and we lose. Celtic aren't Barcelona. Their starting XI is marginally better at full strength compared to ours currently with injuries... but other teams found a way to beat that same Celtic team with players no better than our weakest lineup. Beale had three defeats in seven before he left, so yeah, Clement started with a disadvantage, but they've dropped points too and were always going to. He must win the Scottish cup. Three defeats is indefensible.
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Difficult to compare old firm games with their games against the rest of the league. The intensity etc is pumped up on both sides and they have the edge in terms of quality due to our recruitment over many transfer windows.
 
Angrybluebear said:
Danilo done nothing to suggest he would be first choice. In the league he had a conversion rate of 11% and a goal every 133 minutes. Dessers is 16% and every 142minutes.

Cortes has started 3 matches for us.

We have a first team squad of over thirty players.
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How many available wingers and strikers in that 30?… Danilo started raw but he had movement and pace, we ll never know now how it could have went
 
Of course it matters in the Old Firm and Europe.

Hate using injuries as an excuse but this season has been freakish, we ended the OF on Saturday with our fourth centre half pairing, and a complete second string front three.

But I guess the sentiment is that we should have a good enough squad to beat everyone else.

Which is what I think Big Phil has mostly done with a weakened squad due to injuries, just the team fell when it mattered most, which is a whole other issue not injuries.
 
Agree totally with the op here.

This is not Beales squad, it's Clements. He works day in day out with these guys. It's his job to improve them, to install a mentality and a style of play into them.

Yes, injuries hamper us but you can only take that so far. We are not set up to be hard to play through, our defenders are all ball watchers who seem reluctant to close shots down and our midfield/forward players lack energy and a cutting edge. Things that could be worked on to improve which is the managers job. What players have undoubtedly improved playing under him, Yilmaz...

I want Clement here next season, even if we lose the final, but folk really need to stop being so polarised on this. It's either he's Beale no. 2 and needs chased or it's not his fault give him a transfer window or two as though we're going to manage a complete squad turnover in 9 months. The truth of it as usual is somewhere in the middle.
 
Family bam said:
We had 7 players unavailable yesterday through injury , Goldson, Danilo, Cortez, Jack, Matondo, Sima and Balogun.
That's not an excuse that's a fact.
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There's always injuries. Rangers have managed to win without a good lash of good players since our formation. If we can't cope with injuries to some players we'll never win.
 
looway said:
There's always injuries. Rangers have managed to win without a good lash of good players since our formation. If we can't cope with injuries to some players we'll never win.
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I get that, they had a clean bill of health, but when was the last time we played that mob with the same?
I genuinely can't remember!
 
Kilmarnock are well drilled and make games stuffy, you just need to run in a straight line at us and our defence will shit themselves and crumble, while this is happening our midfield will point their fingers and hope it wasn't their responsibility. If we could get our players to play as a unit it would be a big help. IMHO I think the players stop listening to the manager and go into their default mode, which was the shit show on Saturday. We have no leaders on the park, only guys who think they are leaders but lack any decent game knowledge and awareness.
 
IbroxMainStand said:
We are a club when the longer you are out injured the better a player you become in eyes of the fans. Out of the injured players its likely only Sima and Goldson would have started had everyone been available.
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Agreed. Some fans are talking about Cortez like he's prime Arjen Robben. The guy barely played before tearing his hamstring. Danilo didn't look any great shakes either.
 
TheBlueRoom said:
Agreed. Some fans are talking about Cortez like he's prime Arjen Robben. The guy barely played before tearing his hamstring. Danilo didn't look any great shakes either.
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Which fans? Or did you just make that up and hoped it would become fact.
And if so then why?

Anyway, Danilo 6 goals in 10 games and he was improving before he was injured but that is just a fact mate.
No great shake though.
 
Gaffer had between Dessers and Dessers to pick from on Saturday.

No Sima and Cortes, so the options were Wright, McCausland, Sterling and Silva, with Silva having a good game tbf.

Recruitment and picking up mysteriously long term injuries have been holding us back long before Phil got here.
 
Maestro72 said:
Totally agree.

Every club has injury woes.

It’s only ever mentioned as an excuse when a team is playing crap.
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And when that lot had theirs, they lost points to various teams.

They have a fully fit squad right now. It's no coincidence their results and form picked up.

Injuries were mentioned plenty when we were playing well too. It's not out of line to at least acknowledge that when two teams are decently well matched, or even arguably that lot being a little stronger on paper, that the side with zero injuries has a bigger chance than the one with nine injuries.
 
IbroxMainStand said:
I think Cortes looked OK before injury but given he missed out the Euro squad and Clement has played Silva in every big game so far I think it would have been Silva-Dessers-Sima. He would have been a good option but probably not starting.

In general we seem to hype up injured players, Roofe was the best finisher and striker at the club a few months ago when out but now he is back can't get any game time. Going back a few years people thought Jordan Rossiter if he could get fit would run the midfield.
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I reckon Cortes would have started most matches and Silva would have been a rotation option central with Dessers. We never played Silva out wide until the injuries piled up.

He only missed out on the Euro squad due to limitations on the number of changes allowed.
 
strider said:
And when that lot had theirs, they lost points to various teams.

They have a fully fit squad right now. It's no coincidence their results and form picked up.

Injuries were mentioned plenty when we were playing well too. It's not out of line to at least acknowledge that when two teams are decently well matched, or even arguably that lot being a little stronger on paper, that the side with zero injuries has a bigger chance than the one with nine injuries.
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Don’t disagree on a one game head to head basis but on the broader point that injuries have been a major contributor to our title loss, that excuse doesn’t wash.

Every team contends with injuries, including them. Spurs, Chelsea and Man United fans in particular have done nothing but bring up injuries for their poor seasons all year - it’s not the root of any of these clubs issues.
 
rex555 said:
Kilmarnock have beat them twice this season. Hearts have beat them home and away without conceding. Clement has had injuries to contend with and yes, the players he inherited need improved upon, but if you look at the three games he's had against them, he had plenty of match fit players available to choose from to setup a starting team stronger than the Hearts and Killie starting XIs that had success. Anyone saying otherwise is sticking to the narrative that Beale left after seven games and left Clement with a Sunday league squad incapable of beating Celtic. One poster said, "walking football team". Rubbish.

Clement can be forgiven for setting us up wrong in the December 2-1 game as it was his first, but the next two is unforgivable. With the same squad Beale left him with, we performed well in Europe and won a cup. I know all fans are just armchair managers (me included), but it was obvious we keep losing the game in midfield against them. 'Injuries and a team that's not his' is a rotten excuse (tho refereeing calls isn't).

Clement has had 40 odd games in charge of the squad in all competitions. No new manager should get a pass from criticism and blame for not winning a single old firm because they haven't had a summer transfer window and the chance to replace a full team with his own. Do you think he interviewed saying, "don't judge me on the rubbish squad that's here, I'll need my own players, especially to beat Celtic"? (Fine, you're hired).

Someone started a thread asking if the SC Final should be a "free hit"? Crazy. He shouldn't be replaced if he loses the final, but he should be tore into if he sets us up wrong again and we lose. Celtic aren't Barcelona. Their starting XI is marginally better at full strength compared to ours currently with injuries... but other teams found a way to beat that same Celtic team with players no better than our weakest lineup. Beale had three defeats in seven before he left, so yeah, Clement started with a disadvantage, but they've dropped points too and were always going to. He must win the Scottish cup. Three defeats is indefensible.
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You are wrong to dismiss injuries as just an excuse. It is a valid reason.

And yes beale fxxked us in the summer with players who were signed for the sake of signing players. There is no balanced formation to be had from those players

injuroes have prevented us from having a run of games with a settled team and building a system that everyone can learn and work within.

Clement deserves a chance with his own players and a pre season to work on things. The board have to back him.

It is also true that the scum are not as fired up v hearts and killing and the games v Rangers are more open.
 
Maestro72 said:
Don’t disagree on a one game head to head basis but on the broader point that injuries have been a major contributor to our title loss, that excuse doesn’t wash.

Every team contends with injuries, including them. Spurs, Chelsea and Man United fans in particular have done nothing but bring up injuries for their poor seasons all year - it’s not the root of any of these clubs issues.
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So despite all the clubs you mention having their poorest runs of form coincide with their higher number of injuries, you don't think there's a correlation at all? You're right to say those clubs have other issues, but they played better when they had fewer players out injured.

I tend to think the root cause of us not winning the league is that they are simply better than us right now, but there's no doubt in my mind that the injuries to various players played a big part. It's not an excuse, it's something we see often in football, and only the mega-rich clubs can afford 20-odd players of sufficient quality that their level doesn't drop too much if it happens.
 
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