Kris Boyd: Do these guys care?

brain said:
The most loyal support in football don't you know?
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Someone will be along to tell you how much money they've spent, and been rewarded with failure due to lack of trophies, but they aren't glory hunters or entitled. It's just "standards".

Saw a comment yesterday, someone was asked if they enjoyed our European runs, and replied that they were pointless because we didn't win the trophy.
 
The majority of the Rangers support know who the culprits are,so i don't think he needs to name them and only saying what most are saying in the stands,pubs and forums.
 
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SaulBearenson said:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Greig winning 3 domestic trophies in a decade can't be compared to Tav winning 3 domestic trophies* (cause we don't count the championship or petrofac as trophies we have won) in 9 years. The argument so far seems to be "that's just ridiculous" and "Celtic were dead good".
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Whilst they ignore the massive financial advantage Celtic have had over us in Tavernier’s whole time here.
 
brain said:
Whilst they ignore the massive financial advantage Celtic have had over us in Tavernier’s whole time here.
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"We can't use 2012 as an excuse".

It's not an excuse, it's a statement of fact.

The worrying thing for me is that so many on here haven't learned anything from those events and just want to keep throwing money at things til we win again.

We fucked it on the way back - the focus should have been on youth development, but instead we filled our team with the likes of Black, Kyle, Templeton, Sandaza, Argyriou, that Brazilian, paying a fortune to beat part timers. Oh, and Boyd too, who couldn't score against part time teams.
 
SaulBearenson said:
"We can't use 2012 as an excuse".

It's not an excuse, it's a statement of fact.

The worrying thing for me is that so many on here haven't learned anything from those events and just want to keep throwing money at things til we win again.

We fucked it on the way back - the focus should have been on youth development, but instead we filled our team with the likes of Black, Kyle, Templeton, Sandaza, Argyriou, that Brazilian, paying a fortune to beat part timers. Oh, and Boyd too, who couldn't score against part time teams.
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The lack of a real focus on modern scouting and analysis over this period is the big thing for me. As recently as last summer we were throwing huge money at players on the advice of our manager.
 
SaulBearenson said:
We fucked it on the way back - the focus should have been on youth development, but instead we filled our team with the likes of Black, Kyle, Templeton, Sandaza, Argyriou, that Brazilian, paying a fortune to beat part timers.
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the people in charge weren't interested in getting us "back"

they were more interested in how they could fill their pockets, only got the club back when King and co stepped in
 
Some of our players are probably realising playing in Scotland isn't as easy as they might have thought. They probably never expected the physicality of it and the attitude required to deal with it.
 
I just hope Clement is as ruthless as Boyd is making out because it is a massive clear out that’s required, no ifs buts or maybes and for me Tav goes too. I feel there’s some sort of cult around him amongst our support and though he’s been immense on many occasions for us he’s also been part of a succession of failures and I actually feel and have felt really bad for him quite a few times but everything has to come to an end and I hope this is the final season for him too along with the others who’s time is up. We need a whole new massive shake up done right this time so it can develop in the right way and hopefully get us out of this never ending misery.
 
Luca Stroppi said:
I just hope Clement is as ruthless as Boyd is making out because it is a massive clear out that’s required, no ifs buts or maybes and for me Tav goes too. I feel there’s some sort of cult around him amongst our support and though he’s been immense on many occasions for us he’s also been part of a succession of failures and I actually feel and have felt really bad for him quite a few times but everything has to come to an end and I hope this is the final season for him too along with the others who’s time is up. We need a whole new massive shake up done right this time so it can develop in the right way and hopefully get us out of this never ending misery.
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Yip an ex Rangers player and supporter says what most of FF have been saying and yet he's still wrong. Madness off the scale and a fickle support, we all know this last couple of weeks very few if any can escape criticism.

If a player cannot be arsed and is looking elsewhere no amount of leadership will change that.
 
Blueranger45 said:
the people in charge weren't interested in getting us "back"

they were more interested in how they could fill their pockets, only got the club back when King and co stepped in
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I don't disagree, which makes it even more incredible that we're back close to where we belong after only 9 years of having the right people in the boardroom, the first few of which were hamstring by onerous contracts to ensure we still didn't make any money.

Perspective is required.
 
Onslow52 said:
Yip an ex Rangers player and supporter says what most of FF have been saying and yet he's still wrong. Madness off the scale and a fickle support, we all know this last couple of weeks very few if any can escape criticism.

If a player cannot be arsed and is looking elsewhere no amount of leadership will change that.
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Who can't be arsed?

(Possibly Barisic, as he's got his next move agreed, but apart from him?)
 
SaulBearenson said:
Who can't be arsed?

(Possibly Barisic, as he's got his next move agreed, but apart from him?)
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When it has really counted in the last couple of matches I'd say Tav (lack of leadership), Goldson, Barasic, Lundstram, Lawrence, Cantwell, and Dessers and Roofe have all given the impression of not caring too much. That's way more than half of the team. Then we have the Silva's, Matondo's and McAuslands that appear to try but have yet to convince they are good enough.

It's not been pretty.
 
brain said:
I think player quality is the issue rather than leadership. It would certainly help to have leaders throughout the squad, but we don't. I don't see the leadership of those two are very relevant to our recent lack of form. Goldson’s decline in ability is more relevant than his leadership. Our tactics and team structure have been very alarming and far more relevant than the leadership of either player.
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Again, the lack of leadership is part of the issue.

The tactics were just fine up until about six weeks ago when we stopped pressing with the same intensity and passing with the same accuracy. I put that down to a creeping fatigue, but as performances dipped and results began to falter I’m not seeing the sort of leadership I’d expect from the senior pros - their heads have gone down alongside everyone else’s.

I do agree that the tactics and team selection have been questionable though. Starting with more or less the same team that collapsed so dismally in Dingwall was a bit of a head scratcher, especially when the form of those three senior pros we keep banging on about has so noticeably fallen away, but also the failure to shore up the midfield and try and win that battle first and foremost.

The worry is that Clement is another whose vision is king and wont deviate greatly away from it in search of the win. Certainly his praise of the players after Wednesday night, whether for the cameras or not, was baffling when they’d given him (and us) so poor a response to the previous weekend’s debacle.

Reigniting belief in this team is his overriding task for the season’s remainder. Exploring different playing options as well as tactics is something I think most of us would like to see, but it probably means dropping one or two of those much maligned senior pros, and if he’s not prepared to do that then I fear he and we are going to get what we deserve.

(Or don’t, as the case may be).
 
SaulBearenson said:
I don't disagree, which makes it even more incredible that we're back close to where we belong after only 9 years of having the right people in the boardroom, the first few of which were hamstring by onerous contracts to ensure we still didn't make any money.

Perspective is required.
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I hope you're not trying to suggest that we shouldn't feel thoroughly pissed off that having got ourselves into a title winning position we've f*cked it up by taking 1 point from 6 against Ross County and Dundee. If that's "perspective" you know where you can shove it.
 
brain said:
I think player quality is the issue rather than leadership. It would certainly help to have leaders throughout the squad, but we don't. I don't see the leadership of those two are very relevant to our recent lack of form. Goldson’s decline in ability is more relevant than his leadership. Our tactics and team structure have been very alarming and far more relevant than the leadership of either player.
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"Player quality" didn't make us lose to Ross County or fail to beat Dundee.
 
SaulBearenson said:
How so? By not winning they don't deserve our support?

The entitlement is unreal.
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You can't be serious? The players get our support week in week out and constantly fail us. 3 trophies in 6 years for some of these guys, that's not acceptable.

It's not entitlement it's standards, which they are miles off!
 
brain said:
It's an association fallacy for me and no more. There is no “same core” and to pin this on 2/3 players is mental. Godson wasn't playing when we blew it last year, Tav wasn’t playing when we blew it in 19/20. Their absence on both occasions was seen a key factor. Not to mention failings of the managers.
Edit - just to be clear, Goldson’s form has clearly dipped alarmingly this season. That's not a very recent thing.
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The fact no one wanted Goldson even on a free should have told us something. Instead we give him a new four year contract.

He won't be in a hurry to leave his cushy, cosy billet. An utter shambles of a situation.
 
"Do they care?"

Do they fuq

We need to live amongst the most disturbed and entitled fan base on the planet.

The players disappoint us at every opportunity, then go back to their ivory towers with their £30k a week.
 
GarrieRFC said:
So are you happy with the return and how this season is playing out?
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The "return" is what it is. It's a lot more than most win, so for a club that was fucked down to the bottom league and tied up by spivs until 8 years ago then that's alright.

As for this season, in October we looked like being nowhere near anything yet we've got one trophy in the bag and still in contention for another two after yet another excellent European run.

What you refer to as standards is glory hunting and entitlement. "If you don't win I will withdraw my support". Catch a grip and get behind the fucking team.
 
The Goalie said:
They probably care more than Boyd did in his 2nd spell, they are certainly in better shape.
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You seem to forget that team at the time was shit and Boyd should have been put on a fitness campaign, plus he had next to no service. We should not take back any player over the hill.
 
Mallaig Thrillman said:
I prefer to think of it as a winning mentality that is part of the club's ethos. The current batch of players don't get it and it's sad to see supporters erode a winning ethos by referring to it as entitlement.
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When people are saying if the team don't win then they don't deserve to be supported, that's entitlement.

I prefer to think of MrsBearenson as still having the same figure she did 20 years ago when we first met, it doesn't change reality.
 
SaulBearenson said:
When people are saying if the team don't win then they don't deserve to be supported, that's entitlement.

I prefer to think of MrsBearenson as still having the same figure she did 20 years ago when we first met, it doesn't change reality.
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Did I say that?

The fact of the matter is we can return to past glories unlike your Mrs (and mine for that matter).

It's been a long and slow haul since 2012 but when supporters lose that ambition and start describing those that cling to it as 'entitled' we are in deeper trouble than I'd like to believe. If such attitudes become widespread we are accepting that we are on a slippery path towards a new status alongside the also rans of Scottish football. The current players do not have the belief and if they don't who else will.uphold the Rangers ethos. If not the fans?

A saving grace is that the manager seems to understand.


“Winning, becoming champion, is the only thing that counts,” he said. “But I’ve been like that all my life. There is nobody who can be more critical than me because I want to win everything.

Maybe you should take a leaf from his book and rediscover some ambition for your team?
 
Mallaig Thrillman said:
Did I say that?

The fact of the matter is we can return to past glories unlike your Mrs (and mine for that matter).

It's been a long and slow haul since 2012 but when supporters lose that ambition and start describing those that cling to it as 'entitled' we are in deeper trouble than I'd like to believe. If such attitudes become widespread we are accepting that we are on a slippery path towards a new status alongside the also rans of Scottish football. The current players do not have the belief and if they don't who else will.uphold the Rangers ethos. If not the fans?

A saving grace is that the manager seems to understand.


“Winning, becoming champion, is the only thing that counts,” he said. “But I’ve been like that all my life. There is nobody who can be more critical than me because I want to win everything.

Maybe you should take a leaf from his book and rediscover some ambition for your team?
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You didn't say that, but the poster I was replying to said words to that effect.

I've got plenty of ambition for my team, but that also means being realistic - if you had offered us being in a title race now back in October every single person on here would have bitten your hand off.

The manager also spoke about it being a marathon and that there would be bumps in the road. Well, we've had the bumps and it seems like FF has surrendered and resorted to rounding on our team instead of supporting them - again, like the manager has spoken about having the synergy and the fans with them. Nah, apparently plenty of people who claim to support us don't have the stomach for that and would rather just lash out.
 
SaulBearenson said:
You didn't say that, but the poster I was replying to said words to that effect.

I've got plenty of ambition for my team, but that also means being realistic - if you had offered us being in a title race now back in October every single person on here would have bitten your hand off.

The manager also spoke about it being a marathon and that there would be bumps in the road. Well, we've had the bumps and it seems like FF has surrendered and resorted to rounding on our team instead of supporting them - again, like the manager has spoken about having the synergy and the fans with them. Nah, apparently plenty of people who claim to support us don't have the stomach for that and would rather just lash out.
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Let's wait and see how much patience the manager has with what I am.sure he realises are serial.losers. As for being realistic, are you telling me it was unrealistic to expect us to beat Ross County and Dundee in the final run in of the league, especially given the multi-millions at stake?

The so-called leaders in this team have failed the club and the support time and time again. We cannot continue to accept their weak-minded capitulation and they have to go. I strongly suspect Clement already knows this. Indeed the best support we can offer the club right now is to reject any thoughts of yet another season with habitual losers in leadership roles. If progress is to be made in the coming seasons they need to be gone and the sooner the better.
 
SaulBearenson said:
Someone will be along to tell you how much money they've spent, and been rewarded with failure due to lack of trophies, but they aren't glory hunters or entitled. It's just "standards".

Saw a comment yesterday, someone was asked if they enjoyed our European runs, and replied that they were pointless because we didn't win the trophy.
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Wonder if they seen it as pointless when they bounced about after FT at the Leipzig game experiencing the happiest moment they've ever had at a football gane
 
Twosignals said:
You seem to forget that team at the time was shit and Boyd should have been put on a fitness campaign, plus he had next to no service. We should not take back any player over the hill.
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Why should the team being poor at the time mean it is ok for Boyd to be an out of shape mess? He has a short memory. Professional football players should not need to be put on a fitness campaign.
 
I've not been on here for the past week and I'll reiterate I'm still fucking raging. Boyd isn't saying nothing wrong that all true bears think they've shat the bed again full stop.
 
Mallaig Thrillman said:
I prefer to think of it as a winning mentality that is part of the club's ethos. The current batch of players don't get it and it's sad to see supporters erode a winning ethos by referring to it as entitlement.
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Completely agree. Completely thrown by some of the stuff on this thread.
 
SaulBearenson said:
You didn't say that, but the poster I was replying to said words to that effect.

I've got plenty of ambition for my team, but that also means being realistic - if you had offered us being in a title race now back in October every single person on here would have bitten your hand off.

The manager also spoke about it being a marathon and that there would be bumps in the road. Well, we've had the bumps and it seems like FF has surrendered and resorted to rounding on our team instead of supporting them - again, like the manager has spoken about having the synergy and the fans with them. Nah, apparently plenty of people who claim to support us don't have the stomach for that and would rather just lash out.
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I never said anything remotely close to that. I said they receive our support week in week out and always find a way to fail us. Never once did I say they don't deserve our support.

It's not entitlement to want Rangers players to deliver.
 
SaulBearenson said:
You didn't say that, but the poster I was replying to said words to that effect.

I've got plenty of ambition for my team, but that also means being realistic - if you had offered us being in a title race now back in October every single person on here would have bitten your hand off.

The manager also spoke about it being a marathon and that there would be bumps in the road. Well, we've had the bumps and it seems like FF has surrendered and resorted to rounding on our team instead of supporting them - again, like the manager has spoken about having the synergy and the fans with them. Nah, apparently plenty of people who claim to support us don't have the stomach for that and would rather just lash out.
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Could have sworn you said that in a reply to me. Must have been mistaken as you wouldn't attribute something to the wrong poster just to satisfy your misguided sense of defeatism and lack of ambition would you?
 
The Goalie said:
Why should the team being poor at the time mean it is ok for Boyd to be an out of shape mess? He has a short memory. Professional football players should not need to be put on a fitness campaign.
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Did you read my thread, as I stated he should have been put on a fitness regimen at that time.
 
Phil'ieve said:
Got absolutely no idea what that post means
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Celtic are poised to pay multimillion-pound damages within months after agreeing to settle legal claims over systematic child abuse

Its either been Hugh Birt or fan Gerry McSherry that sent those letters. The names on those letters were some of the vilest beasts at that club ...yet nothing was done. From what I recall, I think Birt's name only came up at Torbett's trial. I do remember Gerry McSherry though. A man of...
www.followfollow.com www.followfollow.com
 
Candyass said:
What are you talking about & why does that subject even need broached while talking about summer transfers?!
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The part quoted related to money.

Celtic are poised to pay multimillion-pound damages within months after agreeing to settle legal claims over systematic child abuse

Its either been Hugh Birt or fan Gerry McSherry that sent those letters. The names on those letters were some of the vilest beasts at that club ...yet nothing was done. From what I recall, I think Birt's name only came up at Torbett's trial. I do remember Gerry McSherry though. A man of...
www.followfollow.com www.followfollow.com
 
Govan36 said:
The part quoted related to money.

Celtic are poised to pay multimillion-pound damages within months after agreeing to settle legal claims over systematic child abuse

Its either been Hugh Birt or fan Gerry McSherry that sent those letters. The names on those letters were some of the vilest beasts at that club ...yet nothing was done. From what I recall, I think Birt's name only came up at Torbett's trial. I do remember Gerry McSherry though. A man of...
www.followfollow.com www.followfollow.com
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What about it?

I'm still not following why you're bringing the CBC stuff into a thread about the core of our side needing moved on?
 
Candyass said:
What about it?

I'm still not following why you're bringing the CBC stuff into a thread about the core of our side needing moved on?
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I'll try to spell it out for you then. It is about money and Boyd's statement;

"...Celtc have the resources to spend big."

It's almost as if they were saving for a rainy day and that rainy day is possibly coming in the next 4 months.
Boyd is comparing our spending power with their's, but failed to mention how they managed to have the resources.

If you still don't get the point, just move on.
 
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