St Johnstone

Jason Kerr and Ali McCann were both very good for St Johnstone. McCann is the kind of signing we should have been making. Undisclosed, but I don't see Preston having paid a big fee. If they'd got through to the conference league group stages then that might have been enough for them to have kept both players. Unfortunately thats the reality for teams like St Johnstone. Brown is very careful at balancing the books and St Johnstone are one of those teams that will rarely be in financial trouble even if it means cutting back on player quality.

McDairimid Park was packed for the Galatasary game. If even half of those fans went regularly then the club would be in a far better position to retain it's better players.
 
Kyle Hutton was getting his game in midfield for us in 2010 bud, wouldn't be so sure on that, one of them developed into a hell of a better football player than the other.

The reference of Arfield was to show we don't always shit gold and can miss talent that is playing in Scotland, that players from this country go down to lower leagues in England doesn't somehow mean they are a complete bust.

'Started' only one league game that season. 4 other starts in cup games when we were facing an injury crisis and basically adapted our Euro tactics to play 5-4-1 every European game.

The Arfield move also shows that players will probably benefit more from going and playing regular football at a level that suits rather than sitting on the bench or in the stands at Ibrox.
 
'Started' only one league game that season. 4 other starts in cup games when we were facing an injury crisis and basically adapted our Euro tactics to play 5-4-1 every European game.

The Arfield move also shows that players will probably benefit more from going and playing regular football at a level that suits rather than sitting on the bench or in the stands at Ibrox.

But he was playing football for us, that's the reality, it isn't like we had an incredible high point of football talent which players the ilk or Arfield couldn't strive to meet even at that time.

I wouldn't class McCann and his current level as a mile removed from a player like Ryan Jack at the time he joined us personally, there is a world where if Ryan Jack doesn't join Rangers for instance there is a really high chance he moves to an English Championship club like a Preston, if he had, does that somehow mean Ryan Jack isn't a good footballer as the original post I quoted was sort of trying to imply re McCann and his move to Preston.
 
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The Sheepies were holding out for 3M for Ferguson and McCann is a better player than Ferguson!

Good luck you baaahstards!
 
They lost out on about £8m I think not qualifying for the Conference League. Not surprised they've sold them although would have thought they'd have got more money but their only worth what people will pay.
 
But he was playing football for us, that's the reality, it isn't like we had an incredible high point of football talent which players the ilk or Arfield couldn't strive to meet even at that time.

I wouldn't class McCann and his current level as a mile removed from a player like Ryan Jack at the time he joined us personally, there is a world where if Ryan Jack doesn't join Rangers for instance there is a really high chance he moves to an English Championship club like a Preston, if he had, does that someone how mean Ryan Jack, isn't a good football as the original post I quoted was sort of trying to imply re McCann and his move to Preston.

Not really, I said Arfield wouldn't have been a starter for us in 2010 when he moved to Huddersfield. Comparison is players who started regularly for us in midfield rather than Hutton who wasn't a regular starter.

I'll still stick to that he wouldn't have been a starter in our midfield in 2010, the player he would have been in direct competition with at the time was Steven Davis who was a level above. Both of them wouldn't have played in a two with Naismith in front.

Jack had played 250 games before he joined us. McCann is still quite a bit before that in his development, a move to the level he's went to is more suiting for him just now.
 
I think its good money for them but the disappointing aspect is they wont reinvest it wisely and create any sort of growth. Whatever they do spend itll be on dud, SPFL frauds who wont move their dial 1 bit.

Clubs like STJ arent going to sell players for good money every season, but they surely can tell when its likely to happen and as such should have a list of realistic players they can bring in. Specifically using the money raised to try and sign multiples of those out with a view to boosting the team overall. In terms of the specifics of those players moving did they even bother to look at the clubs interested in signing them and try to identify a player or players that could be used as leverage? We will accept the offer but can you sell us at a discount/loan us for a season X/Y? Probably not.

For example, 2 of their better players gone. Good money in. Try to sign 3 - 5 players who will add something to the team. That way the loss is not as pronounced. If theres nobody available now at least have a good idea of players you can make solid offers to in Jan or potentially next Summer.

Its the most basic, simply planning for a Football Club in terms of recruitment but its almost non-existent in this backwater. Which is why these clubs never ever grow in any capacity on or off the pitch.

Its as disappointing as it is predictable.
Are they not better don’t what they’ve done and focusing on bringing through players to sell rather than just trying to buy in players? St Johnstone are a very well run club so the monies received will be invested in the club as a whole.
 
Not really, I said Arfield wouldn't have been a starter for us in 2010 when he moved to Huddersfield. Comparison is players who started regularly for us in midfield rather than Hutton who wasn't a regular starter.

I'll still stick to that he wouldn't have been a starter in our midfield in 2010, the player he would have been in direct competition with at the time was Steven Davis who was a level above. Both of them wouldn't have played in a two with Naismith in front.

Jack had played 250 games before he joined us. McCann is still quite a bit before that in his development, a move to the level he's went to is more suiting for him just now.
I haven't really made the point about Arfield, Hutton or if McCann had been signed starting to be honest with you bud, it is a bit of a redundant and self made argument made from yourself to counter a point no one has actually made. It wouldn't have taken that much for someone to fill the Kyle Hutton role in 2010, which was an actual role in a Rangers squad, as I said, it wasn't some mythical high water level of talent squad.

We don't always make additions on the premise of them being starters, we have players tiered into the squad under the premise of them being long term projects, back up players and squad players, high chance for instance McLaughlin, Patterson, Balogun, Simpson, Bassey, Jack, Arfield, Hagi, Sakala and a fair few others aren't always "starters" this season, but are still of use and need and in the case of the likes of Bassey, Hagi and Sakala develop into regular and often starters and signed as long term projects.

Nathan Patterson has played 7 games of football for us and we turned down a bid of 8 million for him, not entirely convinced by the games played point either way personally, general quality of games can be just as important McCann has been playing in Cup Semis and Finals and winning them, looking comfortable in Europe and playing International football, he has shown to be someone quite comfortably developed to deal with Scottish football, and to win Cup competitions in Scottish Football, looks to be on a decent trajectory even for his age, teams do often sign young players in football, it happens a lot actually.

A player moving to Preston, by no means means they wouldn't have turned out to be a decent addition for us, I mean we have just made an addition from a team who had a far worse season last year than Preston.
 
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£500k for Kerr is a steal. Would’ve taken him at Ibrox, think he’s got loads of potential to develop and is already a good player.
 
I haven't really made the point about Arfield, Hutton or if McCann had been signed starting to be honest with you bud, it is a bit of a redundant and self made argument made from yourself to counter a point no one has actually made. It wouldn't have taken that much for someone to fill the Kyle Hutton role in 2010, which was an actual role in a Rangers squad, as I said, it wasn't some mythical high water level of talent squad.

We don't always make additions on the premise of them being starters, we have players tiered into the squad under the premise of them being long term projects, back up players and squad players, high chance for instance McLaughlin, Patterson, Balogun, Simpson, Bassey, Jack, Arfield, Hagi, Sakala and a fair few others aren't always "starters" this season, but are still of use and need and in the case of the likes of Bassey, Hagi and Sakala develop into regular and often starters and signed as long term projects.

Nathan Patterson has played 7 games of football for us and we turned down a bid of 8 million for him, not entirely convinced by the games played point either way personally, general quality of games can be just as important McCann has been playing in Cup Semis and Finals and winning them, looking comfortable in Europe and playing International football, he has shown to be someone quite comfortably developed to deal with Scottish football, and to win Cup competitions in Scottish Football, looks to be on a decent trajectory even for his age, teams do often sign young players in football, it happens a lot actually.

A player moving to Preston, by no means means they wouldn't have turned out to be a decent addition for us, I mean we have just made an addition from a team who had a far worse season last year than Preston.

I didn't make up anything mate. You brought up Arfield to make a point and then brought up Hutton to try and refute a point which it didn't.

Arfield is the player he is today because of his time in England. That 8 years developed him as a player. In 2010, he wouldn't have been a starter for that Rangers team and there's no quantifiable way to know if he would have developed the same way if we had signed him but Rangers weren't interested and rightly so at the time. It isn't one they got wrong because he progressed elsewhere.

You were comparing McCann in relation to Jack's level when we signed him. Jack had played 250 games, all you've listed in relation to cup finals and European football. Yeah, Jack had done that too by the time he signed but on top of that his team which he was the captain of had been finishing much higher in the league every season than St Johnstone have. He was further ahead in his development.

A player moving to Preston doesn't mean they wouldn't have been decent for us but it's the right move for McCann's development just now. If Rangers thought he was worth the money being asked, he'd be with us. Most of the non-starters you've listed, we don't spend a £1.2 million + on them. Hagi being the exception but he's far more talented and used for specific purposes that are very valuable.

Nathan Patterson has played more than 7 games for Rangers btw.
 
I didn't make up anything mate. You brought up Arfield to make a point and then brought up Hutton to try and refute a point which it didn't.

Arfield is the player he is today because of his time in England. That 8 years developed him as a player. In 2010, he wouldn't have been a starter for that Rangers team and there's no quantifiable way to know if he would have developed the same way if we had signed him but Rangers weren't interested and rightly so at the time. It isn't one they got wrong because he progressed elsewhere.

You were comparing McCann in relation to Jack's level when we signed him. Jack had played 250 games, all you've listed in relation to cup finals and European football. Yeah, Jack had done that too by the time he signed but on top of that his team which he was the captain of had been finishing much higher in the league every season than St Johnstone have. He was further ahead in his development.

A player moving to Preston doesn't mean they wouldn't have been decent for us but it's the right move for McCann's development just now. If Rangers thought he was worth the money being asked, he'd be with us. Most of the non-starters you've listed, we don't spend a £1.2 million + on them. Hagi being the exception but he's far more talented and used for specific purposes that are very valuable.

Nathan Patterson has played more than 7 games for Rangers btw.

The point about Hutton re 2010 was to show there was no mythical high water mark in that squad, it didn't take that much for quite average football players to play in it, Hutton, Wylde, Foster, Healey, Beattie, it wouldn't have taken much for AN other underdeveloped player to play given that underdeveloped players were playing in that squad as well as players who were just generally very poor.

My original point about Arfield, was in reply to a post saying McCann had went to Preston as though that somehow diminishes his talent, it is just a bit of a daft view, we have often missed talent who have went to England and performed perfectly well even upon their arrival there rather than going through great strides of development, it was little to do with Rangers getting it right or wrong, talented football players often join poor teams, football isn't a sport where players live their entire career with high level sides, playing for a lesser side doesn't diminish a player talent.

I said Ryan Jack could feasibly have joined a side like Preston if he didn't join us, would doing so have meant he was somehow a poor football player, no, not it wouldn't. I said I don't think the two are massively removed as players at the stage they could have joined us (Jack and McCann)

I would class McCann as a better player now than Jack was when he left Aberdeen personally. I don't think number of games is a sole barometer of talent to make that differential between them either, Jude Bellingham has played a hell of lot less games than 250 and I would consider him better than Ryan Jack for instance at time he left Aberdeen, some players reach a talent level sooner than others.

To me that is just a wee bit McCoist logic , games played meaning better, McCoist is a manager who would likely have looked at games played as a priority, in part why we ended up with Black, Smith, Law and Daly rather than innovative thinking to even try the likes of McGinn, Robertson, Cummings and Shinnie, because surely those first mentioned were always going to be better/were better options because they had played more games? it's just cheats thinking to me, and a very decent example of how flawed that thought process can be.

Our squad has/had quite a few who cost more than 1.2 million who weren't starters in recent years, Grezda, Katic, Itten. Hagi isn't alone in costing over 1 million while being a project player/a player who wasn't always a starter BTW.

Patterson has played more than 7 games, but a lot less than 250 which evidently didn't have a great bearing in how the Everton scouting team viewed the player, they looked at what he has achieved, the talent he has and potential career trajectory, because games alone aren't always a great bearing.

I am neither here nor there re Rangers not signing him (McCann), but the point of, Rangers didn't sign him and he went to Preston so people who rate him are wrong about him, was just a bit silly
 
And for those on here touting McCann for us , please note he’s gone to PRESTON.
What's that got to do with it?
Point being we need a better standard of player.
Better judging him after his next move.
If he's a success he'll go to a bigger club, if not possibly back to a wee club in Scotland.
I think it's a great move for him and have high hopes for him.
 
What's that got to do with it?

Better judging him after his next move.
If he's a success he'll go to a bigger club, if not possibly back to a wee club in Scotland.
I think it's a great move for him and have high hopes for him.
That’s the point I was making tbf , not ready for us right now but with time and the correct development who knows.
 
Is there any truth that we offered £800,000 and Glen Middleton but they turned it down as they can’t afford his wages?

Mate said that to me but haven’t seen it anywhere else
 
That’s the point I was making tbf , not ready for us right now but with time and the correct development who knows.
After we played Malmo away, later that night or the next night I think, I watched him play in Europe and he was excellent, ran the middle of the park.
He had everything our midfield lacked v Malmo, hunger, mobility, aggression and energy and 100% would have improved us in that game.
 
After we played Malmo away, later that night or the next night I think, I watched him play in Europe and he was excellent, ran the middle of the park.
He had everything our midfield lacked v Malmo, hunger, mobility, aggression and energy and 100% would have improved us in that game.
So I believe but surely if we were interested and at the price he went for we would have moved using Middleton as part of the deal?
 
Even if we had gone for him I think he would have chosen the chance of more game time at PNE over us.
 
St Johnstone won 2 cups , finished top 6 and also had some euro funds this year given that they don’t have a large support I imagine financially there in a decent position compared to other clubs, bit shocked the fee was so low
 
Really disappointing St Johnstone have decided to sell two of their best players for under £2m.
Why do clubs like this continue to sell their talent for peanuts rather than showing some ambition and holding onto their best players?
Wouldn't be surprised if Callum Davidson leaves at the first opportunity after this debacle
Money talks for wee clubs like that I guess, but I do take your point, shit for the manager and fans.
 
So I believe but surely if we were interested and at the price he went for we would have moved using Middleton as part of the deal?
I know nothing else mate, my only contribution to this thread is that I think he would have been a very good signing and a low risk gamble for a million quid.
 
I suspect that if teams like St Johnstone received sufficient SPFL sponsorship money, instead of the insulting paltry sum they receive from the Cinch deal, then they wouldn't resort to having to sell their best players at low prices.

St Johnstone's supporters should be forming a queue to thank Mr Douglas Park & co for taking on that snide horrific haired little weasel Doncaster.
 
I suspect that if teams like St Johnstone received sufficient SPFL sponsorship money, instead of the insulting paltry sum they receive from the Cinch deal, then they wouldn't resort to having to sell their best players at low prices.

St Johnstone's supporters should be forming a queue to thank Mr Douglas Park & co for taking on that snide horrific haired little weasel Doncaster.

But of course they won't, and in conclusion - %^*& St Johnstone.
 
It would've been interesting to see what those players values would have been had they managed to get into the conference league and get a couple of half decent results/ performances. Also be interesting to see how they cope this year. obviously pretty impressed by what Calum Davidson acheived last year.
St Johnstone are a small club even by Scottish standards, in terms of support theres probably plenty outside the SPL just now who are bigger. I dont know much about how they're run etc apart from the lad who is chairman now is the previous ones son and they were always touted as being quite a steady ship. I wouldnt be surprised if their budget is lower than the likes of Motherwell and St Mirren even. 2 cups in a season and creditable results against Galatasary and Graz is more than anyones managed in Edinburgh Aberdeen or Dundee in quite a while so fair play to them.
 
Really disappointing St Johnstone have decided to sell two of their best players for under £2m.
Why do clubs like this continue to sell their talent for peanuts rather than showing some ambition and holding onto their best players?
Wouldn't be surprised if Callum Davidson leaves at the first opportunity after this debacle
To keep the lights on ffs.
Waken up eh.
 
I was on holiday in Skye last year and met an old chap in the hotel who wanted to talk about football every time I bumped into him. When he found out I was a Bluenose he advised me that he and a number of his close friends were season ticket holders at St Johnstone. He informed me that although all were St Johnstone season ticket holders they were without any doubt Rangers sympathisers.
.
 
Really disappointing St Johnstone have decided to sell two of their best players for under £2m.
Why do clubs like this continue to sell their talent for peanuts rather than showing some ambition and holding onto their best players?
Wouldn't be surprised if Callum Davidson leaves at the first opportunity after this debacle

These teams will never be able to keep their best players or mount a serious challenge because they dont get a big enough share of the limited income the sport generates in Scotland.

Another issue is the wages players get. We need to create an affordable and sustainable salary scale for ALL players to prevent them moving for more money.
 
I think its good money for them but the disappointing aspect is they wont reinvest it wisely and create any sort of growth. Whatever they do spend itll be on dud, SPFL frauds who wont move their dial 1 bit.

Clubs like STJ arent going to sell players for good money every season, but they surely can tell when its likely to happen and as such should have a list of realistic players they can bring in. Specifically using the money raised to try and sign multiples of those out with a view to boosting the team overall. In terms of the specifics of those players moving did they even bother to look at the clubs interested in signing them and try to identify a player or players that could be used as leverage? We will accept the offer but can you sell us at a discount/loan us for a season X/Y? Probably not.

For example, 2 of their better players gone. Good money in. Try to sign 3 - 5 players who will add something to the team. That way the loss is not as pronounced. If theres nobody available now at least have a good idea of players you can make solid offers to in Jan or potentially next Summer.

Its the most basic, simply planning for a Football Club in terms of recruitment but its almost non-existent in this backwater. Which is why these clubs never ever grow in any capacity on or off the pitch.

Its as disappointing as it is predictable.

They've no money just like all the other "diddy" teams. Scottish football is only going one way.
 
These teams will never be able to keep their best players or mount a serious challenge because they dont get a big enough share of the limited income the sport generates in Scotland.

Another issue is the wages players get. We need to create an affordable and sustainable salary scale for ALL players to prevent them moving for more money

Lewis Ferguson is on 2k a week at Aberdeen
Watford offered 2.5m for him with a contract on 18k a week

Life changing money
How do you deal with this situation
 
Lewis Ferguson is on 2k a week at Aberdeen
Watford offered 2.5m for him with a contract on 18k a week

Life changing money
How do you deal with this situation

We cant do anything about wages paid by other countries as your example shows. What we can do though is fix the problem here in Scotland with guys like Ferguson getting paid the same as others in the SPFL. That would stop the likes of us and the tims killing competition by pinching all the best players from our competitors.

Share the income more evenly and lets make Scotland an example of how to make football fair and competitive. If we dont we'll end up with just 2 full time professional teams left.
 
We cant do anything about wages paid by other countries as your example shows. What we can do though is fix the problem here in Scotland with guys like Ferguson getting paid the same as others in the SPFL. That would stop the likes of us and the tims killing competition by pinching all the best players from our competitors.

Share the income more evenly and lets make Scotland an example of how to make football fair and competitive. If we dont we'll end up with just 2 full time professional teams left.
Mate Goldson is leaving this year
He wanted 35k a week- a record for a defender at our club
He's on 23 with bonuses right now
Connor will be 4th choice at Norwich or Burnley either Jan or May
 
If St Johnstone had offered us McCann for £1M and Middleton we would probably have bitten. And loaned him back to them for the season.

If we had wanted McCann we would have asked the question, we obviously didn't.
 
i like the cut of mc cann tbh and could have been nurtured long term into the SD roll but fully trust our management team to make these calls and no sleep lost .preston awaits and time will tell how good he becomes or not
 
Mate Goldson is leaving this year
He wanted 35k a week- a record for a defender at our club
He's on 23 with bonuses right now
Connor will be 4th choice at Norwich or Burnley either Jan or May

I agree but there's nothing we can do about wages paid by other countries. The Chinese are pinching players from the west. All we can do is sort out Scottish football by sharing the cash more evenly AND creating an affordable and sustainable salary scale. Lets create competition.

Do you know our league is one of the least competitive in the world with just 2 teams winning 106 titles. Its ridiculous and its getting worse year after year.

Its happening elsewhere and ordinary fans are getting turned off.
 
Kerr, and McCann in particular we’re getting rave reviews from the Scottish press, yet they have gone to Preston and Wigan, hardly a massive move! I thought McCann might have gone to the likes of West Brom or Bournemouth
 
They got, by their standards, a huge sum for Mccann, and he probably quadrupled his salary, it’s win win here, can’t blame anyone in this situation.

Plus he is their best player and we play them next so it’s good for us to.
 
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