Tav for the defensive lav?

Do people not listen to the manager or understand football. Tav and Barisic are both attacking full backs, in certain matches both will play. Flanagan is a different type of defender and tough away games then he will come in for sure. I love Flanagan and for me he is a huge part of our defence success so i find it tough to see how he can be dropped but i think he will be tomorrow.
 
Op needs to take up a new sport. Clearly doesn’t have the slightest clue about football.
 
Tav's defensive side will get better now he has better centre halves and a better keeper beside him, any slight mistake he makes is magnified ten fold on here but the same people are very quiet when he has a blinder, give the guy a break.
 
Stopped what I thought was a certain goal the other night using his pace to get back onto the line. Good that we have 2 capable right backs and Tav could be a better option than Candeias going forward. All good.
 
A point I would make generally about our full backs ( and this seems to have been going on for years) is that they both tuck in far too much. The amount of occasions I see the winger stand out wide on the touch line receiving the ball unchallenged with no one near him...! The full back is positioned like another centre half. If he had been standing wider, a ball to the winger would have been no option and there would be nothing to defend in the first place.
 
beartrack said:
Was he not supposed to be marking the goal scorer? He was nowhere near him when the cross was played. That’s his job first and foremost.
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Tav was not responsible for their goal. The team noticeably dropped concentration after our goal was called offside. All players failed to shut Maribor down as they made their way from the halfway line to play the ball to the eventual goal scorer.

Additionally, it was their left back who scored the goal - the shape we take when under pressure is that Tav tucks in with the forward left sided player and Candeias tracks the left back if they push forward. So if you're looking to blame anyone then he was most likely Candeias' man, so he'd be blamed. But that altogether is a short sighted idiotic approach in analysing the situation which is only self serving in the sense that events have been moulded to suit a narrative. The whole teams concentration lapsed, it was visible for anyone to see, so much so that I said to my friend who I sit with that Maribor were going to score seconds before it happened.
 
I would argue Tav is our most effective player. He has a few blips defensively but are you tellling me the rest of our defence aren't going to have them?

I'm pretty sure the management team know what Tavs weaknesses are and working on them every day.

The guy could easily have pushed for a move down south this summer and prob double his money yet he's sticking around. You just get the feeling he gets it and always has since the day he signed

Everyones entitled to an opinion and all that but ffs.
 
The problem isn't that Tav can't defend because he's shown numerous times that he can.

The problem is that Tav switches off and loses concentration. We saw that in both Shkupi games and the Osijek away leg. However, he's been excellent in the three games since culminating in a quite fantastic performance on Thursday night.
 
Wow.. Of all the strange times to do a TAV bashing thread, My MOM on Thursday (and the way others played, that is some feet!).
..
He can defend, but what he also brought going forward, won us the game.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
''There's no such thing as sentiment in football'' That's what my old man used to tell me when I was growing up.

It seems to me, the more things change the more things stay the same.

Let's cut to the chase.

Most of us love James Tavernier. A good guy, conducts himself well off the park yadda, yadda, yadda. And sometimes that delivery into the box is a belter. - Sometimes.

However, Tav simply cannot defend. I do not think after three years hard, searching evidence this summation is up for debate and we've seen it already this season, especially in the away leg in Croatia.

Ironically enough, with the acquisition of the Croat, Band-heid, whose class on the ball stood out against us over the two legs recently, some might think there is a dilemma in the defence. I don't see it myself. Band-heid goes straight to left back and Flannagan goes to right back. There you go a tightening in the defence immediately. (He says hopefully)

So where does that leave Tav?

If not in the middle of nowhere, then it should certainly be, or it can only be from the middle of the park, or more precisely to the right of.

The Croatian was signed for a reason. Flannagan was signed for a reason and it would be a shame not to utilise their defensive capabilities (although Flann's howler in Croatia still burns in the memory box) and in doing so, maybe we will see a Tav without the real pressures of defending first and foremost, flourish.

The thought of quality balls now pinging in from both flanks is rather a welcome one.
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To think somebody actually spent time writing the OP
 
Absolutely love tav both defensively and offensively, without doubt one of our most infuetional players and a deserving captain
 
Tagsbear said:
He’s a full back, a FULL BACK, he’s not and never will be a midfielder.

Goldson showed a bit of skill on Thursday, should we play him centre mid? Sounds daft eh, well thats how daft this continuous suggestion with Tav is.
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100% agree

Katic has scored a couple - could he play up front with Fredo
 
Some absolute pish gets spouted about on here at times, Tav is our captain and probably the best right back in the country, his ability to bomb forward and create things to me far outweighs his odd defensive lapse, and his defending does seems to be improving under Gerrard, he was sensational on Thursday night
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Sorry mate, but the Tav can't defend story is a myth.

If you watch Thursday nights game you will notice that Tav was defensively sounder than Flanagan.

That's not a dig at Flanagan either, as he's done very well.

Tav is miles ahead of any other RB in the country and as Gerrard said yesterday, is easily an EPL standard full back.
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its not a myth

and a lot of us can remember his performances against the scum and the hibs cup final

appalling doesn't come close to describing his performances
 
thetoptier said:
its not a myth

and a lot of us can remember his performances against the scum and the hibs cup final

appalling doesn't come close to describing his performances
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He was playing in a team with 2 absolutely diabolical central defenders (Wilson and Kiernan), a defensive mid who'd never played the position in his life before and a formation that left him seriously exposed.

Judge him on performances this season.
 
Totally agree that there should be no sentiment in football. So, in spite of playing in the EPL years ago and some acceptable initial performances, Flanagan will be dropped in favour of a much better left back and the guy involved in most of our goals whose defensive displays have also been pretty good. And whose offensive capabilities are a very very strong defence holding back opposition players.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
He was playing in a team with 2 absolutely diabolical central defenders (Wilson and Kiernan), a defensive mid who'd never played the position in his life before and a formation that left him seriously exposed.

Judge him on performances this season.
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all his best attributes are attacking

you could very easily play tav in front of flanagan and it would work perfectly
 
What a shite OP. Only way Tav is being moved is if he goes to right wing back/right mid in a 3-5-2/5-3-2

Tav isnt the best defender, often caught out with long diagonals in behind, however, find me a better rounded RB in Britain who we could even nearly afford.

There is a reason there is interest from decent clubs down south. As Gerrard says, hes a premiership player.
 
thetoptier said:
all his best attributes are attacking

you could very easily play tav in front of flanagan and it would work perfectly
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No it wouldn't.

Tav is a far better full back than midfielder.

As I said earlier, one of his biggest attributes is the timing of his runs from deep.
If his starting position is higher up the park he'll be nowhere near as effective.

Wallace, Hutton and Whittaker found exactly the same problem when pushed further forward.
 
Probably the worst thread title ever, I bet OP thought he was being clever as well.
 
ZvP said:
Tav was not responsible for their goal. The team noticeably dropped concentration after our goal was called offside. All players failed to shut Maribor down as they made their way from the halfway line to play the ball to the eventual goal scorer.

Additionally, it was their left back who scored the goal - the shape we take when under pressure is that Tav tucks in with the forward left sided player and Candeias tracks the left back if they push forward. So if you're looking to blame anyone then he was most likely Candeias' man, so he'd be blamed. But that altogether is a short sighted idiotic approach in analysing the situation which is only self serving in the sense that events have been moulded to suit a narrative. The whole teams concentration lapsed, it was visible for anyone to see, so much so that I said to my friend who I sit with that Maribor were going to score seconds before it happened.
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They have a player furthest forward, in our box, on the left. Our right back should be marking him.
 
The Goal Machine said:
On and on it goes, Tav can't defend yah de yah de yah.

For god's sake thank god we have him he has been the shining light in a dark time, the guy is a proper footballer.

Do you not think the positives he brings to the team makes up for any weakness he has? A thousand fold.

'His defensive frailties were exposed playing in a poor team with poor formations, tactics and set up. '
see above from Joe 90.

Steven Gerrard, yes, Steven Gerrard gave him the captaincy. Nuff said!
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I’ve never heard one journo or Tim stating publicly that Tierney can’t defend. We’re great at giving our enemies ammunition.

Tav is our Captain, a great attacking full back who deserves respect not the stuff in the OP.
 
Tagsbear said:
What a pile of cluelessness that post is.

How anyone could come away from the other night and have a go at Tav who was the best player on the park I don’t know.

Thankfully the manager doesn’t share this crazy outlook.
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I don't believe the OP is basing his views on Tav's defensive frailties on one game.

Neither should those "defending" Tav take Thursday night in isolation.

The facts are, that Tav has throughout his Ibrox career, been a huge asset in the opposition half and something rather less in our own half of the field.

A better standard of player around him will help, how could it not? However,Tav's defensive shortcomings have come through his own lack of concentration and his lack of positional sense as much as anything else.
 
Alex Venters said:
I don't believe the OP is basing his views on Tav's defensive frailties on one game.

Neither should those "defending" Tav take Thursday night in isolation.

The facts are, that Tav has throughout his Ibrox career, been a huge asset in the opposition half and something rather less in our own half of the field.

A better standard of player around him will help, how could it not? However,Tav's defensive shortcomings have come through his own lack of concentration and his lack of positional sense as much as anything else.
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I’m not.
 
Sorry OP but what a steaming pile of shite you’ve shovelled there!

Tav is easily, easily our best player. The timing of his runs from the back are a vital attacking tool & as others have alluded to his defending has improved ten fold over the last 12 months or so
 
Anyone who witnessed the shift that Tav and Candeias put in down our right flank against decent European opposition the other night and wants to break up that partnership needs their head looked.

The facts are this:

  • Tav is stronger going forward than coming back.
  • We now have two solid centre backs and a choice of two or three dynamic holding midfielders, therefore we have much better cover for him when he pushes forward than in previous seasons
  • The vast majority of games this season we'll be playing against teams we're expected to beat and will be spending most of our time attacking
  • If Tav gets injured or we really want to shore things up then we have the option of Flanagan to come in
  • Tav is still the best right back at the club. Indeed in Scotland.


EDIT - I also think that in Gerrard we have a manager who IF he observes Tav dropping his level of performance or clearly costing us a few goals over a spell will not be shy in giving him a rest and sticking Flanagan in. That in itself should help keep Tavernier on his toes.
 
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He can be late tracking back due to the amount of times he goes forward. If we are smart enuf to cover for him in these instances the all will be good.

As posted above he was tremendous in his defending and in his overall game.
 
Calderwoodbear said:
Have 3 of the goals we have conceded not been from Tavernier side of the pitch, just saying.
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Well you could've had half a dozen right backs playing the other night and that strike was still going in.

The goal against Osijek at Ibrox was scored by Barisic, their left back who got away from Windass.

At Pittodrie Coulibaly got out jumped and then the shot went through Goldson.

Tav wasn't to blame for any of them , if you're looking to blame someone.
 
beartrack said:
Was he not supposed to be marking the goal scorer? He was nowhere near him when the cross was played. That’s his job first and foremost.
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Nope.

Tavs job, which he done, was to drop into the middle as one of the centrebacks had been pulled out of position. He was exactly where he should be. When that happens it's Candieas job to drop into the right back position to cover Tav.
 
Incoming I know but Band-heid...Really?

It's got a less than a complementary overtone to it and things like this bug me.

His name is. BORNA Barišić, BORNA or as someone on another thread has called him BORNABear. ;)

I'm a tad sensitive this morning I know but there's no need.
 
beartrack said:
They have a player furthest forward, in our box, on the left. Our right back should be marking him.
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Whatever you say man. Let's just ignore everything else he did in the game and focus on his solitary mistake to brand him as a shit defender.
 
Joe 90 said:
His defensive frailties were exposed playing in a poor team with poor formations, tactics and set up. This season has seen a massive improvement culminating in some brilliant covering tackles on Thursday night.
I’ve no doubt good coaching has helped and having a better midield and defence around him.
Flannigan will play plenty of games but tav is our right back.
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Correct, better tactics in particular have shown the he is a fine full back.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
''There's no such thing as sentiment in football'' That's what my old man used to tell me when I was growing up.

It seems to me, the more things change the more things stay the same.

Let's cut to the chase.

Most of us love James Tavernier. A good guy, conducts himself well off the park yadda, yadda, yadda. And sometimes that delivery into the box is a belter. - Sometimes.

However, Tav simply cannot defend. I do not think after three years hard, searching evidence this summation is up for debate and we've seen it already this season, especially in the away leg in Croatia.

Ironically enough, with the acquisition of the Croat, Band-heid, whose class on the ball stood out against us over the two legs recently, some might think there is a dilemma in the defence. I don't see it myself. Band-heid goes straight to left back and Flannagan goes to right back. There you go a tightening in the defence immediately. (He says hopefully)

So where does that leave Tav?

If not in the middle of nowhere, then it should certainly be, or it can only be from the middle of the park, or more precisely to the right of.

The Croatian was signed for a reason. Flannagan was signed for a reason and it would be a shame not to utilise their defensive capabilities (although Flann's howler in Croatia still burns in the memory box) and in doing so, maybe we will see a Tav without the real pressures of defending first and foremost, flourish.

The thought of quality balls now pinging in from both flanks is rather a welcome one.
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I guess you don’t like Tavernier!
Utter drivel.
Can’t defend?
Tripe, drivel, rubbish, nonsense, crap.
Pick one, bud.
Alternatively, get your thesaurus out and find another with the same denotation.
 
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