Tav for the defensive lav?

A better RB than many of the RB's in England's Premiership.

Darmian at RB for Manchester United couldn't lace Tavernier's boots. Amartey for Leicester the same. I mention those two as they started in Tavernier's position last night.

He's got his defensive frailties at times but if he could defend as well as he could attack, pass, strike and deliver a ball, he would be playing for a PSG, Barcelona, Arsenal, Manchester City... because his attacking attributes are bloody outstanding.

I'd also say since Steven Gerrard has come in and handed him the captain's armband, he's grown in stature, confidence and discipline. Some of his last ditch tackles, challenges and defending has been outstanding.

£1.8m, £3m... truly laughable. Let's start talking millions. He's the best all round full back in Scottish football.

Rangers captain, performing on the domestic and European scene, scoring goals, assisting, attacking like top top full back, making goal saving tackles and with a number of years left on his contract - £15m is a good starting price.
 
There have been and will no doubt continue to be occasions when Tavernier is caught out of position on the right side of defence. He’s not perfect but then who is? I don’t think there’s an argument against his exceptional contribution going forward.

I think Flanagan is a better defender and there may be times when Gerrard might be tempted to play him at right back. I think that’ll depend on how well Barisic fits in to the team on the other side. Overall though, Tavernier’s contribution to the team from the right back position is fantastic. He’ll be one of the first names on the team sheet. A stand out for me.

I disagree with those saying he can’t play in midfield though. He’s a good footballer and can probably play in a number of positions. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he made an excellent wide midfielder or even central midfielder. But his position in the team is full back, he’s made the position his own over the past few years and that’s where he should stay by in large. I can see there may be occasions where he could be utilised elsewhere though and it shouldn’t be completely disregarded.
 
Why do people expect our players to be perfect?
Tav was fantastic the other night and a consistently good performer for us. We're going in the right direction all round, I'd say another striker and we're sorted.
 
ZvP said:
Whatever you say man. Let's just ignore everything else he did in the game and focus on his solitary mistake to brand him as a shit defender.
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No I didn't say that.

It's not a solitary mistake however, he does it frequently, and for a defender his marking is not good enough.

In my humble opinion.
 
Tavernier is our captain and one of our best players, those who have a strange dislike of him are going to be disappointed if they think he's going to be dropped.
 
James Tavernier is not a midfielder. Never has been.

He is a right back, will continue to play there and captain the club in that position.

How anyone can watch Tav's surging forward runs and incredible crosses from deep and come to the conclusion that he should be playing right wing is well fucking beyond me.
 
If the OP had even a scintilla of intelligence he would edit the thread header. Excruciating and cringeworthy does not begin to describe it.
 
beartrack said:
Yes but they were all marked already and the only person unmarked was the goalscorer.
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When the ball is played to the goalscorer:

Smart_Select_20180811_122610_You_Tube.jpg


Tavernier is doing what he's supposed to do, which is tucking in to form a compact defensive block as we shift players across to pressure the ball. If he was standing out on the wing marking the wide man on their left, that would be him out of position. He was not supposed to be 'marking' that guy.

Please try to understand what you are watching before you spout shite criticizing our players. You cannot play a pressing game in 11v11 without leaving some opponents 'unmarked'.
 
Prometheus said:
When the ball is played to the goalscorer:

Smart_Select_20180811_122610_You_Tube.jpg


Tavernier is doing what he's supposed to do, which is tucking in to form a compact defensive block as we shift players across to pressure the ball. If he was standing out on the wing marking the wide man on their left, that would be him out of position. He was not supposed to be 'marking' that guy.

Please try to understand what you are watching before you spout shite criticizing our players. You cannot play a pressing game in 11v11 without leaving some opponents 'unmarked'.
Click to expand...

No need to be hostile flower.

They have 11 players and so do we. When they attack, *everyone* should be marked.

There is a man unmarked. In the box. On the left. Tavernier isn't marking anyone. I see a problem there.

How would be out of position if he's the right back? If Candeias is supposed to be marking the goalscorer then who should Tavernier be marking?
 
If you think Tavernier can’t defend you simply don’t know football.

Best right back we’ve had in a long, long time.
 
a full back's primary job is to defend. If he couldn't do that, Gerrard would not have him about the place. Also when a full back attacks, it is up to the centre backs and defensive midfielder to provide cover. That just didn't happen last season, and Tavernier looked exposed through no fault of his own.
 
beartrack said:
No need to be hostile flower.

They have 11 players and so do we. When they attack, *everyone* should be marked.

There is a man unmarked. In the box. On the left. Tavernier isn't marking anyone. I see a problem there.

How would be out of position if he's the right back? If Candeias is supposed to be marking the goalscorer then who should Tavernier be marking?
Click to expand...


Can you explain to me how you would go about implementing a pressing strategy that keeps all of the opposition marked man-for-man and thus doesn't allow us any spare players to pressure the man who has the ball?

Where is the unmarked player in the box in the picture I posted, which is right as the ball is played that they scored from?

Why do you assume that all of our players are supposed to be 'marking' someone rather than being in a shape?
 
Prometheus said:
Can you explain to me how you would go about implementing a pressing strategy that keeps all of the opposition marked man-for-man and thus doesn't allow us any spare players to pressure the man who has the ball?

Where is the unmarked player in the box in the picture I posted, which is right as the ball is played that they scored from?

Why do you assume that all of our players are supposed to be 'marking' someone rather than being in a shape?
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Yes, I agree that the player was outside the box when the pass was played, but he was unmarked in the box when he scored. I do assume that players still should be marked in the box; this seems like a fundamental aspect of any defence.

Tavernier, regardless of what you call the system, is doing nothing when the goal is scored. He's in our box and he's not marking anyone. He's not pressing, he's ignoring.

That to me is a serious weakness in his game irrespective of the number of people who think otherwise and that is the point I'm making.

I don't have anything else to say about it so I'll respectfully say let's agree to disagree.
 
beartrack said:
Yes, I agree that the player was outside the box when the pass was played, but he was unmarked in the box when he scored. I do assume that players still should be marked in the box; this seems like a fundamental aspect of any defence.

Tavernier, regardless of what you call the system, is doing nothing when the goal is scored. He's in our box and he's not marking anyone. He's not pressing, he's ignoring.

That to me is a serious weakness in his game irrespective of the number of people who think otherwise and that is the point I'm making.

I don't have anything else to say about it so I'll respectfully say let's agree to disagree.
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That's provably false. Here's a still taken as the guy hits the shot

Screenshot_from_2018_08_11_13_25_55.png
 
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MearnsUnionist said:
Sorry mate, but the Tav can't defend story is a myth.

If you watch Thursday nights game you will notice that Tav was defensively sounder than Flanagan.

That's not a dig at Flanagan either, as he's done very well.

Tav is miles ahead of any other RB in the country and as Gerrard said yesterday, is easily an EPL standard full back.
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Tav can't defend when he is out of position, and he is constantly out of position because we demand it from him.
Tavernier is our most effective attacking threat.
Every manager we have had has recognised this and every one of them has directed James to get up that right flank, and MR Steven Gerrard has done exactly the same as Warburton, Caixinha and Murty in this instruction.

However, now we come to the very nub that has created the cannot defend myth.
All teams defend together, they defend as a unit, and the best defensive teams are the ones who can best defend as a team unit.
Rangers didn't do this.
Instead, Tav was usually left, up the field, when the opposition broke, having to rush back to the empty space his foray forward had left to his rear.

Opposition teams on regaining possession would know this and ping a ball forward to the only player in their side left in our half usually in Tavs side of the field....but not always.
However, Gerrard quite smartly has other players in the side slotting into Tavs area of the field when he attacks, and we now have a midfield that are instructed to cover holes left by players moving around the field, we are working as a team unit, and looking very much like a team again.

It is that simple.

As for James Tavernier, he has been simply fantastic again and again and again.
A real captain who reflects the person standing on the touchline.
Professional, committed and giving 100%
 
Speminalium8 said:
A point I would make generally about our full backs ( and this seems to have been going on for years) is that they both tuck in far too much. The amount of occasions I see the winger stand out wide on the touch line receiving the ball unchallenged with no one near him...! The full back is positioned like another centre half. If he had been standing wider, a ball to the winger would have been no option and there would be nothing to defend in the first place.
Click to expand...

If they stand wide they cant cover their centre halfs and get caught with the ball inside and behind them which is far more dangerous than a ball wide to a winger in front of them. What you are describing above is textbook full back defending.
 
bilkobear said:
Tav can't defend when he is out of position, and he is constantly out of position because we demand it from him.
Tavernier is our most effective attacking threat.
Every manager we have had has recognised this and every one of them has directed James to get up that right flank, and MR Steven Gerrard has done exactly the same as Warburton, Caixinha and Murty in this instruction.

However, now we come to the very nub that has created the cannot defend myth.
All teams defend together, they defend as a unit, and the best defensive teams are the ones who can best defend as a team unit.
Rangers didn't do this.
Instead, Tav was usually left, up the field, when the opposition broke, having to rush back to the empty space his foray forward had left to his rear.

Opposition teams on regaining possession would know this and ping a ball forward to the only player in their side left in our half usually in Tavs side of the field....but not always.
However, Gerrard quite smartly has other players in the side slotting into Tavs area of the field when he attacks, and we now have a midfield that are instructed to cover holes left by players moving around the field, we are working as a team unit, and looking very much like a team again.

It is that simple.

As for James Tavernier, he has been simply fantastic again and again and again.
A real captain who reflects the person standing on the touchline.
Professional, committed and giving 100%
Click to expand...

Top post and summary to be fair.
 
*Team implements standard defensive structure*


Position Oriented Zonal Marking
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pressing8-e1488678662368.png

In this type of zonal defense, players seek to remain in their positions in relation to their teammates and shift towards the ball. The idea behind this type of zonal marking is that there is no need to directly pressure the opponent or the ball when the team can control the space around the ball by shifting towards it in its block.

Because this type of marking is oriented specifically to one’s teammates the compactness of the team is maintained throughout the block – though it does require a lot of running to close the open space if the opponent seeks only to circulate the ball in safe positions. If the ball is played into a tight near-side area (created by the block shifting towards the ball) it is pressed and the opponent is in a very difficult situation. As you can tell, this form of pressing the ball is a bit more passive in comparison to others because the team just shifts towards the ball and waits for the opportunity to press instead of actively seeking out the opportunity to press.
Click to expand...
https://spielverlagerung.com/2017/03/05/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/


*Opposition score an extremely low percentage first time shot from an acute angle after a switch of play*


Guys on here looking for any opportunity to blame a player who they've decided is a poor defender and want to be proved right:
Right Back leaving their left winger unmarked man ffs he cannot defend!!
Click to expand...
 
beartrack said:
Yes but they were all marked already and the only person unmarked was the goalscorer.
Click to expand...
Here's the ball going to the guy who crossed to the back post. Katic is in the middle of the box, Tav and Goldson are marking the two players at the back. The guy who scores is behind Candieas in midfield.

23b066adf196def1c0e5c84d66c4cecd.jpg



A second further on, the goalscorer is running away from Candieas, who isn't aware of it and it focused on the man in the middle, but Arfield is already stepping out to block him.

a09581c20858f4b59793d017994ff4a2.jpg


Tav realises the flight of the ball is going to the back and pushes out onto the man making the run. He almost blocks the shot which, 99 times out of 100 isn't leading to a goal. Also, note what's happened in the middle now that Tav's had to step out and everyone else has come across, Maribor now have a man free at the back post.

250150d92da8fcddf68d43011e471692.jpg


As I say, Candieas is the man who should've been tracking this run. I don't say this to be particularly critical of him as he put in a helluva shift on the night but it's just a fact in this case.
 
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Christ, just done all that and then read further up and seen others have pretty much covered it. That's what I get for hitting reply before reading later posts :(
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
''There's no such thing as sentiment in football'' That's what my old man used to tell me when I was growing up.

It seems to me, the more things change the more things stay the same.

Let's cut to the chase.

Most of us love James Tavernier. A good guy, conducts himself well off the park yadda, yadda, yadda. And sometimes that delivery into the box is a belter. - Sometimes.

However, Tav simply cannot defend. I do not think after three years hard, searching evidence this summation is up for debate and we've seen it already this season, especially in the away leg in Croatia.

Ironically enough, with the acquisition of the Croat, Band-heid, whose class on the ball stood out against us over the two legs recently, some might think there is a dilemma in the defence. I don't see it myself. Band-heid goes straight to left back and Flannagan goes to right back. There you go a tightening in the defence immediately. (He says hopefully)

So where does that leave Tav?

If not in the middle of nowhere, then it should certainly be, or it can only be from the middle of the park, or more precisely to the right of.

The Croatian was signed for a reason. Flannagan was signed for a reason and it would be a shame not to utilise their defensive capabilities (although Flann's howler in Croatia still burns in the memory box) and in doing so, maybe we will see a Tav without the real pressures of defending first and foremost, flourish.

The thought of quality balls now pinging in from both flanks is rather a welcome one.
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Pish

Pure and simple, utter pish.
 
Out of Tavernier, Flanagan and Barisic, if one of them needs to be dropped the most likely it will be Flanagan.

You might find that in some scenarios all 3 might play. From what we've seen of Barisic he'd be absolutely fine on the left side of a midfield. Gerrard has bought a versatile left sided player who can defend and attack. This cunt could be priceless for us.

Tavernier will not be dropped from his position. Gerrard loves him and banks on his effectiveness and what he brings heavily outweighing his errors by a sizeable ratio.

It really is true that it's a case of you don't know what you've got til it's gone with Tavernier.

As much as Flanagan is decent and brings his own qualities, we lose an awful lot more on that side with Flanagan as RB.

And don't forget, I'd be amazed if Katic and Goldson go through the season without a niggle or 2. Flanagan can fill in there as well.

Gerrard has been incredibly impressive in his choice of players.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
''There's no such thing as sentiment in football'' That's what my old man used to tell me when I was growing up.

It seems to me, the more things change the more things stay the same.

Let's cut to the chase.

Most of us love James Tavernier. A good guy, conducts himself well off the park yadda, yadda, yadda. And sometimes that delivery into the box is a belter. - Sometimes.

However, Tav simply cannot defend. I do not think after three years hard, searching evidence this summation is up for debate and we've seen it already this season, especially in the away leg in Croatia.

Ironically enough, with the acquisition of the Croat, Band-heid, whose class on the ball stood out against us over the two legs recently, some might think there is a dilemma in the defence. I don't see it myself. Band-heid goes straight to left back and Flannagan goes to right back. There you go a tightening in the defence immediately. (He says hopefully)

So where does that leave Tav?

If not in the middle of nowhere, then it should certainly be, or it can only be from the middle of the park, or more precisely to the right of.

The Croatian was signed for a reason. Flannagan was signed for a reason and it would be a shame not to utilise their defensive capabilities (although Flann's howler in Croatia still burns in the memory box) and in doing so, maybe we will see a Tav without the real pressures of defending first and foremost, flourish.

The thought of quality balls now pinging in from both flanks is rather a welcome one.
Click to expand...

Seriously mate, stop watching football because you don't have a clue.
 
Some people decided a long time ago that Tav can't defend - and no matter how well he defends from now until he retires, they're going to stick by that.

Actually embarrassing seeing some of the comments about him.

BTW for those who can't see past Flanagan for some reason - he was the weak link the other night.
 
Markpro said:
Tav's defensive side will get better now he has better centre halves and a better keeper beside him, any slight mistake he makes is magnified ten fold on here but the same people are very quiet when he has a blinder, give the guy a break.
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Sensible post. Folk seem to be forgetting that not only was our defence shite last season but our midfield was powderpuff when Jack was injured. So if you play full back then you need to interact with both the defence and the midfield - both of which were shambolic for us but have now been tightened up significantly.

Last season Tav was doing at least 3 different jobs so it is no surprise he was caught out a few times. This season he will be allowed to concentrate on doing what he does exceptionally well - being an attacking right back knowing that other players are covering his arse.

I have no doubt that 1. Thursday night will not be a one-off for Tav and that 2. The OP will regret his post once he has sobered up.
 
beartrack said:
No need to be hostile flower.

They have 11 players and so do we. When they attack, *everyone* should be marked.

There is a man unmarked. In the box. On the left. Tavernier isn't marking anyone. I see a problem there.

How would be out of position if he's the right back? If Candeias is supposed to be marking the goalscorer then who should Tavernier be marking?
Click to expand...

Never played football in your puff
 
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This debate is really tiresome.
He’s right back, he’ll continue to be the right back. He isn’t going to move forward a position because clueless people keep moaning about it.
 
I agree on everything you say but his mentality is changing with the rest of the team.

Just hope he can get better at defending because it is his only weakness, he would be worth a fortune if he can get that guide to his game sorted.

For me he is far to easily beaten in a 1v1 but the attacked threat, runs, not scared to take the ball off a player and the odd goal he’s a very good player.
 
dt17 said:
Some people decided a long time ago that Tav can't defend - and no matter how well he defends from now until he retires, they're going to stick by that.

Actually embarrassing seeing some of the comments about him.

BTW for those who can't see past Flanagan for some reason - he was the weak link the other night.
Click to expand...

The reason that people decided long ago, and I'll go with circa Oct, 2015, that
Tav can't defend is because he can't defend.

But anyway it doesn't matter what you or I think tonight.

Tomorrow will tell us possibly where we go from here.

There is no place in a Rangers defence for James Tavernier.

That' how I see it.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
''There's no such thing as sentiment in football'' That's what my old man used to tell me when I was growing up.

It seems to me, the more things change the more things stay the same.

Let's cut to the chase.

Most of us love James Tavernier. A good guy, conducts himself well off the park yadda, yadda, yadda. And sometimes that delivery into the box is a belter. - Sometimes.

However, Tav simply cannot defend. I do not think after three years hard, searching evidence this summation is up for debate and we've seen it already this season, especially in the away leg in Croatia.

Ironically enough, with the acquisition of the Croat, Band-heid, whose class on the ball stood out against us over the two legs recently, some might think there is a dilemma in the defence. I don't see it myself. Band-heid goes straight to left back and Flannagan goes to right back. There you go a tightening in the defence immediately. (He says hopefully)

So where does that leave Tav?

If not in the middle of nowhere, then it should certainly be, or it can only be from the middle of the park, or more precisely to the right of.

The Croatian was signed for a reason. Flannagan was signed for a reason and it would be a shame not to utilise their defensive capabilities (although Flann's howler in Croatia still burns in the memory box) and in doing so, maybe we will see a Tav without the real pressures of defending first and foremost, flourish.

The thought of quality balls now pinging in from both flanks is rather a welcome one.
Click to expand...
Unbelievable
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
The reason that people decided long ago, and I'll go with circa Oct, 2015, that
Tav can't defend is because he can't defend.

But anyway it doesn't matter what you or I think tonight.

Tomorrow will tell us possibly where we go from here.

There is no place in a Rangers defence for James Tavernier.

That' how I see it.
Click to expand...
Change your name to Stevie Wonder's Sunglasses
 
I’m keen to see Barisic in a Rangers shirt, but the calls to drop our captain for a player who the overwhelming majority of FF and Rangers have only seen play twice are pathetic.

Let’s see what he’s like at LB in our league before the premature ejacualtion shall we?
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
The reason that people decided long ago, and I'll go with circa Oct, 2015, that
Tav can't defend is because he can't defend.

But anyway it doesn't matter what you or I think tonight.

Tomorrow will tell us possibly where we go from here.

There is no place in a Rangers defence for James Tavernier.

That' how I see it.
Click to expand...

Give it up for %^*& sake.

Thats highly embarrassing.
 
Some people will not give Tav any credits whatsoever ... they have made their minds up he’s a bad defender and can’t recognise anything positive he does .... from that standpoint all they want to do is have a go at him

I realise he has weaknesses but he also has such potent strengths we would be weaker without him

I fvckin love the guy
 
The pun in the thread title is right up there with the poster that referred to them as “Demsmelly” and “Stinklair”
 
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