Time we stop these young EPL "superstar" loans for good?

prenzlauerbear said:
The overreaction to Diallo's performance yesterday has been absurd.
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Think it's just because he seems the opposite of what you expect from a Rangers player - never shirk a 50/50, and give your all for the club when you're on the park. He should have squared to Morelos when he hit the post. Morelos often picks the wrong option too but this was at such an important time in the match and the season that it obviously adds to the negativity around him.

I wouldn't give up on him but the management need to help by making it clear only 100% is good enough at Rangers and dropping players who don't show that commitment. Who knows whether that will sink in for the short time he is here. There's also the hope he might like Rangers and want to come back.

Would also say that the manager was a bit naïve throwing a kid like that straight into an old firm game in those circumstances, and that got him off to a bad start.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
The overreaction to Diallo's performance yesterday has been absurd.
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It's always the same people need a scapegoat when results don't go the right way. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and yes he should have squared it at the time but the extra touch he takes that he doesn't need to take ends up making him have to go with his weaker foot.
 
Burgh-Ger said:
There was a reason about 4 threads were chopped on the boy yesterday.

Some of the comments were poor about the teenager.

He made a couple of wrong decisions in a frantic game that he played about 30mins of -
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But it's the standard of the decisions across a wide range of situations:

Hitting the post - unlucky, more awareness he couldve squared it but 90% of others would've shot. His control going through was lacking.

50/50 - absolutely no attempt to play the ball or tackle. Won't be accepted or tolerated by the supporters up here and and not what we need

Offside - no awareness of his surroundings with the defence in the middle yards deeper. For a player in his position that's a fundamental part of his game. What made that worse was Tav gave him a bollocking and he looked either unclear why or not bothered.

From what I've seen of them both Lowry is just as good and is our plater so should be developed 1st.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
He had a few terrible isolated moments yesterday but generally affected the play and helped us stretch them to turn the screw. As someone else mentioned, if he squared that chance it's a different story and he's being hailed as a hero.
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Sakala looked 10 times better.
 
Coopertrueblue said:
But it's the standard of the decisions across a wide range of situations:

Hitting the post - unlucky, more awareness he couldve squared it but 90% of others would've shot. His control going through was lacking.

50/50 - absolutely no attempt to play the ball or tackle. Won't be accepted or tolerated by the supporters up here and and not what we need

Offside - no awareness of his surroundings with the defence in the middle yards deeper. For a player in his position that's a fundamental part of his game. What made that worse was Tav gave him a bollocking and he looked either unclear why or not bothered.

From what I've seen of them both Lowry is just as good and is our plater so should be developed 1st.
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And that's the problem if you watch the replay he never has the ball under control at any point he then takes an extra touch which takes it off his stronger foot and he hits the post. A young inexperienced player making the wrong decision its going to happen it's why he's here on loan.

Lowry isn't a winger so he's not going to play ahead of Diallo for that position. Throw in the rules with the B team/Lowland League setup as well we need to make sure Lowry gets the best option for his development which is playing games.
 
nateman said:
These guys usually come here lacking so many of the ingredients needed to make a successful Rangers player. Said it the moment we were linked with Diallo that it was a terrible way to fill a problematic position, and we had plenty of folk falling over themselves to talk about his price tag and how we'd never be able to afford to buy him.

The EPL is vastly overrated in the first place. It's daft to buy into the hype of how much money these guys are going for, when realistically you have a guy with 7 appearances to his name who thinks he's already made it. Only time it has worked in recent history was Ryan Kent who came here with a good 70+ senior appearances, and I'd argue we've moved up so many levels since then that if we signed a guy like him on loan these days it'd be viewed as a poor signing as well.

At a push the time to bring in a young guy like Diallo is early in pre season when we have plenty of time to bed him in and work with him, but as a 6 month stop gap loan it's just an amazingly poor way to conduct our transfer business for me.
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Yep,the lad may develop in to a player but we have others that are better in his position right now.
 
nateman said:
These guys usually come here lacking so many of the ingredients needed to make a successful Rangers player. Said it the moment we were linked with Diallo that it was a terrible way to fill a problematic position, and we had plenty of folk falling over themselves to talk about his price tag and how we'd never be able to afford to buy him.

The EPL is vastly overrated in the first place. It's daft to buy into the hype of how much money these guys are going for, when realistically you have a guy with 7 appearances to his name who thinks he's already made it. Only time it has worked in recent history was Ryan Kent who came here with a good 70+ senior appearances, and I'd argue we've moved up so many levels since then that if we signed a guy like him on loan these days it'd be viewed as a poor signing as well.

At a push the time to bring in a young guy like Diallo is early in pre season when we have plenty of time to bed him in and work with him, but as a 6 month stop gap loan it's just an amazingly poor way to conduct our transfer business for me.
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The boy has talent that could win us matches. Why the support have turned against him already is that he shat himself from a tackle.
 
nateman said:
These guys usually come here lacking so many of the ingredients needed to make a successful Rangers player. Said it the moment we were linked with Diallo that it was a terrible way to fill a problematic position, and we had plenty of folk falling over themselves to talk about his price tag and how we'd never be able to afford to buy him.

The EPL is vastly overrated in the first place. It's daft to buy into the hype of how much money these guys are going for, when realistically you have a guy with 7 appearances to his name who thinks he's already made it. Only time it has worked in recent history was Ryan Kent who came here with a good 70+ senior appearances, and I'd argue we've moved up so many levels since then that if we signed a guy like him on loan these days it'd be viewed as a poor signing as well.

At a push the time to bring in a young guy like Diallo is early in pre season when we have plenty of time to bed him in and work with him, but as a 6 month stop gap loan it's just an amazingly poor way to conduct our transfer business for me.
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Agree, that are not up for the fight, there was a passage of play when there was a bit of head tennis and he was in the middle and did not challenge for 1, just looked up and actually cowered away.

These boys have the world in front of them (or so they think) and are not going to risk an injury up here playing against someone who will not think twice about taking them out.
 
We should have invested in a proper right winger when we had the chance in January.

That was a position crying out for improvement for the last several transfer windows but we tried to be cheap and it might end up costing us £30m.

Ross Wilson is getting off the hook a lot but for me if we don't win the league he takes a lot of the blame.
 
Captain_Buns said:
The boy has talent that could win us matches. Why the support have turned against him already is that he shat himself from a tackle.
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And didn't square the ball to Morelos for an easy tap in.

And didn't play to the whistle at an off-side call.

And was a mandoon at the piggery.


Agree with your first line though. Just needs to be managed better as he's not a player we can depend on with his age and lack of experience.
 
Walters80 said:
We should have invested in a proper right winger when we had the chance in January.

That was a position crying out for improvement for the last several transfer windows but we tried to be cheap and it might end up costing us £30m.

Ross Wilson is getting off the hook a lot but for me if we don't win the league he takes a lot of the blame.
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How do you know that wasn’t the boards choice?

Wilson can only do his job with the tools at his disposal.

I’m sure he would have preferred to have spent some money on transfer fees rather than £500k across 3 windows on a back up right back.

(Rangers have said there is no £2m loan fee for Ramsey)
 
erskine bear said:
How do you know that wasn’t the boards choice?

Wilson can only do his job with the tools at his disposal.

I’m sure he would have preferred to have spent some money on transfer fees rather than £500k across 3 windows on a back up right back.

(Rangers have said there is no £2m loan fee for Ramsey)
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I don't like agreeing with this, but it probably reflects the reality of where we are at right now than we care to acknowledge when it comes down to finance.
 
erskine bear said:
How do you know that wasn’t the boards choice?

Wilson can only do his job with the tools at his disposal.

I’m sure he would have preferred to have spent some money on transfer fees rather than £500k across 3 windows on a back up right back.

(Rangers have said there is no £2m loan fee for Ramsey)
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We were told before the window opened that we had money if the correct players became available plus we brought in £16m in the space of two months from Gerrard and Paterson. We also made the last 32 in the Europa with more income guaranteed.

I genuinely don't think Rangers were skint in January it's a case of the board/Wilson thought they could coast along to the title without spending much.

We were linked with a number of decent players in January who wouldn't have cost the earth and would improve the starting 11 but Wilson sat on his hands for most of the window then panicked going into the last week or so of it.

It was a completely false economy not to strengthen while we had the chance as it could cost the club five or six times more in lost income.
 
Walters80 said:
We were told before the window opened that we had money if the correct players became available plus we brought in £16m in the space of two months from Gerrard and Paterson. We also made the last 32 in the Europa with more income guaranteed.

I genuinely don't think Rangers were skint in January it's a case of the board/Wilson thought they could coast along to the title without spending much.

We were linked with a number of decent players in January who wouldn't have cost the earth and would improve the starting 11 but Wilson sat on his hands for most of the window then panicked going into the last week or so of it.

It was a completely false economy not to strengthen while we had the chance as it could cost the club five or six times more in lost income.
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Would Gio not take some of the blame as well here if that were the case?

He also referred to having a budget, if he wanted it used then I imagine he would have been backed (like Gerrard was, strongly) and spend some cash if he felt we needed too.

I just don’t like going to heavy on Wilson/the board in terms of recruitment, far too many things we don’t know going on behind the scenes with regards to what players are available, how much their clubs wanted etc.

That’s just me though, can understand why people like yourself may be frustrated but I still look at our squad as being the best in the league, so let’s see where we are come May.
 
Apart from Kent our loans have been abysmal. OK last year they had Duffy but Jota, Carter Vickers are decent. They've also had Roberts, Bellamy etc. They're loans make a difference to their first 11.
Ours are here so we develop them and aren't good enough for the first 11.
 
crmpicco said:
He played his part in us dropping yet more crucial points. He's not committed to Rangers and never will be a Rangers player - why do we persist with these players who aren't up for the fight.

Alex Lowry should be ahead of him.
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I agree with this. Especially the last sentence I agree with this post 100%.
 
I'd like to think we're in a position now where the only loans we have to rely on are players we have options to buy on i.e Sands. We should be past the stage of EPL development loans where the player doesn't really have to care as they'll be back down the road in a few months anyway (not saying Amad doesn't care by the way, just a general thought).

I don't see how him costing Man Utd £30m made this one any different. He's made less than 20 senior appearances in his career and it showed yesterday.
 
It obvious the kid has skill and talent. The problem is he is young and inexperienced. Pitching him in to an OF game or one like yesterday when we are chasing the game in a tough SPFL fixture is not doing him or us any favours.
The fact is the lad was inches away from being the hero yesterday. I think the stick he is getting is unwarranted.

Then again should we be nurturing talent for EPL teams when we have our own kids?
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Would you agree that bringing Roofe on, to play through the middle with Alfredo and keeping Sakala on the right and Kent on the left, would've been a better option for us?

I agree some of the criticism of him has been OTT, but he doesn't look ready for a competitive, physical away game.
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It might have been mate, but I understood the logic of bringing on two pace merchants in Sakala and Diallo given Dundee United looked spent physically. Bear in mind Diallo actually put in a better performance (the caveat being it was against Annan) than Roofe when they both last got a run out.
 
I'm generally not a fan of these kind of signings at all. Kids who've spent the majority of their career tp date playing academy football have zero experience what it's like playing competitive football week in week out.

People like Jack Simpson at his age have barely kicked a first team ball. 25 years old and played less than 50 games of football. You just know its not going to work but you've got to give it a chance.

People mentioned Kent earlier but he had loan spells with first team football at almost 100 games, that experience is invaluable.

Diallo yesterday when he refused to go for that 50/50 (calling it a 50/50 is generous, it was more a 70/30 in his favour) and the offside chance, that's in an academy game there's no one there to see that, no one cares, there's nothing on the line.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
The overreaction to Diallo's performance yesterday has been absurd.
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He is undoubtedly a great player and will be a star in a league where flare players are protected from hammer throwers, he at the moment isn’t up to the Scottish game and has saw his teammates being clattered and he obviously doesn’t fancy that as he stood back on two or three occasions yesterday, when you’re in a dog fight it sticks out like a sore thumb
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Fair point mate, but with the amount of second balls bouncing around in their box, Roofe has history for getting on the end of these sort of chances.

I just thought he could've added the little bit of penalty box composure we were lacking.
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I'd have preferred Roofe to have started yesterday, than come on as a sub. Arfield may have been best starting on the bench, considering the game he had last Thursday.
 
GazzaG said:
Correct it didn't and it was a poor decision.

On that basis, the OP wants us to stop loaning players with big reputations from the EPL.

It might be a bit mad on my part, but I'm firmly of the belief that every player is different.
To write off a club, league or whole country based on a previous signing is fùcking bonkers.
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It's not so much writing off a league. It's about accepting the level of player we'll be able to get a loan of. The top young talent is not coming here. Invariably it's a player the primary club is beginning the process of off-loading.

We were told Diallo was a game-changer. He's looked far from that. Has he been any better than what was already at the Club?

The reality is we went into the Winter break 6pts ahead and thought we could gamble on two loans at either end of their careers. What a mess.
 
You can see from a mile off he doesn’t fancy it he’ll be thinking wtf is this shit show
Plus it doesn’t give our own youngsters much encouragement when an unheard of walks into the first team just because his price tag
 
I'm not going to pretend otherwise the where 2 atrocious moments for Diallo yesterday. Firstly not playing to the whistle and secondly not squaring it to Sakala for a tap in, which is the one that mattered. Having said that I did think he went past players relatively easily yesterday and I'd have been interested to see what kind of performance he would have put in yesterday from the start with his skill and energy. Of course massive question marks.
 
It definitely takes a certain type of character to bed in fast to an environment where for every decent European opponent you get to face you have to play a dozen against players whose intent is to harm you to save face and have something to brag to their mates about (a la Porteous). Diallo is clearly a good player, no one buys a dud for 40m. But the question is, does he fancy spending time on the pitch waiting to be maimed whilst trying to win a game? Not many 18 year olds would. But on the topic of Lowry, I think he should be getting pockets of game time, regardless of Diallo's situation, I can only surmise that there are reasons he is not.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Would you agree that bringing Roofe on, to play through the middle with Alfredo and keeping Sakala on the right and Kent on the left, would've been a better option for us?

I agree some of the criticism of him has been OTT, but he doesn't look ready for a competitive, physical away game.
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I thought the decision to bring on wide men was the right call, the box was already crammed with orange and blue jersey's we needed more width to try and draw that out, the press was way too high and way too concentrated in one area. I think had we done this at say 55 minutes then Roofe would have been perfect at say 65 once we had adjusted the play pattern.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
We sure love to talk about if’s and but’s…

Lads like Lowry should be getting games before Manchester United under 23 players. Diallo clearly isn’t improving the team and he’ll be off come the end of his short loan deal.

I thought Diallo was the wrong option yesterday and posted it at the time.

How many successful loan deals from England can we honestly say have been a success; Ryan Kent. An 18 year old in a troublesome position for 6 months when battling on three fronts is mental.
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Erm.. all of them? :))
 
nateman said:
These guys usually come here lacking so many of the ingredients needed to make a successful Rangers player. Said it the moment we were linked with Diallo that it was a terrible way to fill a problematic position, and we had plenty of folk falling over themselves to talk about his price tag and how we'd never be able to afford to buy him.

The EPL is vastly overrated in the first place. It's daft to buy into the hype of how much money these guys are going for, when realistically you have a guy with 7 appearances to his name who thinks he's already made it. Only time it has worked in recent history was Ryan Kent who came here with a good 70+ senior appearances, and I'd argue we've moved up so many levels since then that if we signed a guy like him on loan these days it'd be viewed as a poor signing as well.

At a push the time to bring in a young guy like Diallo is early in pre season when we have plenty of time to bed him in and work with him, but as a 6 month stop gap loan it's just an amazingly poor way to conduct our transfer business for me.
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Why are you not criticising Morelos for the chances he missed?
 
Dcalm said:
It says a lot about our Academy when an 18 year from down south can make it into our first team when the majority of our own youth are miles from the team.
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Don’t think it does. Man United paid around £20m plus that in add ons for him when he was 16. Hardly a bad show that we don’t have players at that level
 
Midfield General said:
Read the match report,seems to have played well and won a penalty as well.
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I've watched it - very strange penalty award - he had actually lost the ball and got slightly impeded by the keeper. He then had a horrendous sclaff when through on the keeper (at an angle )
 
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