What cost is a new stand and would it be viable considering ST sales?

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Coopers left foot. said:
It's the same mate, just the seat is locked away.
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It can increase capacity by as much as 1 to 1.8. Id imagine a smaller increase from 1 to 1.2 might be easy to achieve. Bear in mind that there would be very few games each season when the seats would be unlocked. Maybe just 1 or 2 as its only required for european games at Ibrox.
 
Arminius said:
It absolutely is a relevant question, but I think almost every level headed fan would agree that stopping the Paedo FC dominance of the game up here takes priority for the next few years.

After that, agree completely that it is something that needs addressed. I like the idea of tying it in with the 150th anniversary celebrations. Big announcement that year? I like that plan
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Agreed. No way will we be in a position to start work on it by 2022, but an announcement in that year that it's planned for, say, within the next decade, and a bit of cash put aside for it right there and then to prove it's not all just words, and that'd be pretty spectacular.
 
Just as a guide, Liverpool's new main stand is reported to have cost circa £110m - and gave them an extra 8500 seats. They had to buy some land as part of that redevelopment which, of course, wouldn't be a factor at Ibrox.

To put further context to it, they also sought planning permission to re-develop the Anfield Road end of the ground and give themselves an additional 5000 seats. Projected cost is circa £45m - that's to re-develop I think, rather than demolish and rebuild - though its not exactly clear.

Talk of £20m-£30m is pie-in-the-sky.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...l-consider-further-anfield-expansion-12988877
 
Valley Bluenose said:
My estimated costs is based on a little experience as a Project Manager in the construction industry which followed a lengthy career in property management with the Royal Air Force - not huge experience in new build costs, but enough to let me know that a figure of £20m-£30m isn't going to pay for demolition of the Govan Stand followed by construction of a high quality replacement that will house, for arguments sake, 15,000 fans with the relevant hospitality facilities, restaurant and office space that exist in the current one. I'd say my £50-£75m is realistic, maybe even conservative, but there are others on here with much more experience than myself. I'm sure they will be along in due course. We could throw-up a meccano set similar to the Dhims for, perhaps, a bit less - but let's not go there!

We'd also lose the use of the stand for a season, which is a significant factor as well not only in terms of matchday attendances but with a need to re-locate hospitality, restaurant and office space elsewhere - perhaps by hiring-in temporary office units. Again, a cost.

I'd love us to re-develop Ibrox but the money isn't there right now - and probably won't be for some time. Any payback, I would suggest, needs to be measured in terms of 10+ years.
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Mate that’s part of the reason in the original post I had a load of question marks as theee are figures I’m unsure of.

For instance I wa just reading online that the Hydro cost 125m to fully construct, how much money do SSE pony up to get involved with that? Surely Rangers would attract a viable partner for a project?

It is gaulling knowing that Celtic gain such a revenue boost just based on seats or our lack of them. If our waiting list is 12,000 people as suggested isn’t that a captive market for cash we are missing out on simply having a smaller stadium?

Would replacing the broomie or Copland Rd still give us a reasonable capacity if we stayed at Ibrox.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Mate that’s part of the reason in the original post I had a load of question marks as theee are figures I’m unsure of.

For instance I wa just reading online that the Hydro cost 125m to fully construct, how much money do SSE pony up to get involved with that? Surely Rangers would attract a viable partner for a project?

It is gaulling knowing that Celtic gain such a revenue boost just based on seats or our lack of them. If our waiting list is 12,000 people as suggested isn’t that a captive market for cash we are missing out on simply having a smaller stadium?

Would replacing the broomie or Copland Rd still give us a reasonable capacity if we stayed at Ibrox.
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See my link to Liverpool's costs buddy. It's a dear business.

I've also addressed the '12k season ticket waiting list' earlier as well. Judging by posts on here virtually everyone who was actively seeking a season ticket managed to get one.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Just as a guide, Liverpool's new main stand is reported to have cost circa £110m - and gave them an extra 8500 seats. They had to buy some land as part of that redevelopment which, of course, wouldn't be a factor at Ibrox.

To put further context to it, they also sought planning permission to re-develop the Anfield Road end of the ground and give themselves an additional 5000 seats. Projected cost is circa £45m - that's to re-develop I think, rather than demolish and rebuild - though its not exactly clear.

Talk of £20m-£30m is pie-in-the-sky.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...l-consider-further-anfield-expansion-12988877
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Sorry mate I have to keep being pedantic, I never talked of those figures I asked a question about what it would likely cost
 
StillNaw said:
If Celtic had 120k more through the gate that is awful considering how many more games they played.

But anyway, we can shorten that difference by getting further in europe and playing champions league football.

Their fans won't really show for Europa qualifiers and if we get the champions league money that could help us out with money for an expansion.
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The reality is the 120k weren’t actually through the gate.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Sorry mate I have to keep being pedantic, I never talked of those figures I asked a question about what it would likely cost
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Fair enough, you 'floated' an idea of £20m-£30m in the OP. I've given you some more realistic figures now. Do you still think it adds up?
 
Any small expansions we can still do? Like lower the pitch or extend part of the stand like Bar 72 where it overhands? Copland and Broomloan stands could maybe do the same?
 
LOL 133 said:
It can increase capacity by as much as 1 to 1.8. Id imagine a smaller increase from 1 to 1.2 might be easy to achieve. Bear in mind that there would be very few games each season when the seats would be unlocked. Maybe just 1 or 2 as its only required for european games at Ibrox.
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It takes the same space as far as I'm aware mate, but happy to be proved wrong.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
See my link to Liverpool's costs buddy. It's a dear business.

I've also addressed the '12k season ticket waiting list' earlier as well. Judging by posts on here virtually everyone who was actively seeking a season ticket managed to get one.
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Mate I was reading that the other night.

Going at it a slightly different route, what would the extra income be if Ibrox was 65,000 seats with increased corporate capacity, merchandise, etc. Would it be possible to get the investment based on the potential income increase per year?

Ibrox and it’s proximity to the airport you would think would be appealing to a hotel company to get involved or a previous investor in stadiums like Etihad or Emirates
 
Beer Belly Loyal said:
We need to win the league first, the bheastdome will be closing off part and putting up banners like happened when we were in the lower divisions. With us in the CLQ's the following season and them with a much lower income and massive wage bill, things will snowball to our advantage very quickly.
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"House of cards".
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Mate I was reading that the other night.

Going at it a slightly different route, what would the extra income be if Ibrox was 65,000 seats with increased corporate capacity, merchandise, etc. Would it be possible to get the investment based on the potential income increase per year?

Ibrox and it’s proximity to the airport you would think would be appealing to a hotel company to get involved or a previous investor in stadiums like Etihad or Emirates
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Wow - you're really going for it now. 65k capacity, so roughly 15k extra seats. The figures given in the link I posted earlier for Liverpool gave a projected cost in excess of £150m to gain 13,500 seats. Admittedly, that included some land purchase which wouldn't necessarily apply at Ibrox (we might have to construct additional parking facilities though, for example - that's one GCC threw at us for the Club Deck if I remember correctly and that WOULD involve land purchases). I'd expect a cost of at least that £150m to take us to 65k capacity. We'd need to be taking in an EXTRA £15m A YEAR to make it pay for itself in 10 years. Even taking it over 20 years its an extra £7.5m a year.

I'm gonna bow out now because, whilst it's desirable and it lets us all fantasise about what we could have, it is entirely unrealistic for the short-to-medium term given the circumstances we currently find ourselves in.
 
I think our capacity is fine for our needs at the moment.

Celtic only get the advantage of a higher capacity when they play in the champions league, and possibly a handful of SPFL games.

It all comes down to winning the league. If we win the league, their capacity does not matter as much.
 
1690 said:
I'd love them to announce an extension to a 60,000 seater stadium during out 150th anniversary celebrations in 2022, but I can't see it happening to be honest. I know nothing of the logistics, but I've been told the way the stadium's currently built and the way the foundations are, extending it would be impossible without having a prohibitively huge sum of money to spend on it.
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Not sure that makes sense, the club deck, for instance means the main stand side has 3 tiers. At a guess the Copland, Broomloan and Sandy Jardine stands will have more sturdy foundation's than the main stand had
 
Surely filling in the corners and putting the screens on top of the Broamloan and Copland stands could be achieved first with a possible third tier on Govan stand later on down the line. That sounds decent to me.
 
1690 said:
I'd love them to announce an extension to a 60,000 seater stadium during out 150th anniversary celebrations in 2022, but I can't see it happening to be honest. I know nothing of the logistics, but I've been told the way the stadium's currently built and the way the foundations are, extending it would be impossible without having a prohibitively huge sum of money to spend on it.
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I think 60,000 would be pretty pointless as an increase

Get it up to 80,000, and pack it out during old firm games and European games.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Wow - you're really going for it now. 65k capacity, so roughly 15k extra seats. The figures given in the link I posted earlier for Liverpool gave a projected cost in excess of £150m to gain 13,500 seats. Admittedly, that included some land purchase which wouldn't necessarily apply at Ibrox (we might have to construct additional parking facilities though, for example - that's one GCC threw at us for the Club Deck if I remember correctly and that WOULD involve land purchases). I'd expect a cost of at least that £150m to take us to 65k capacity. We'd need to be taking in an EXTRA £15m A YEAR to make it pay for itself in 10 years. Even taking it over 20 years its an extra £7.5m a year.

I'm gonna bow out now because, whilst it's desirable and it lets us all fantasise about what we could have, it is entirely unrealistic for the short-to-medium term given the circumstances we currently find ourselves in.
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You seem knowledgeable on why not to do it but not so on why we should do it, whilst I don’t have your experience in construction I did manage a small business that was reasonably successful turning 1.5 to 2m a year. I do understand figures and speculating to accumulate.

We have 12k waiting list, the stadium capacity is 51k so a stadium of 65k is probably the size we need. The question I’ve posed after you gave me the fantastically insightful figures is what income would these extra seats actually generate per year.

I couldn’t afford to buy my house so I took out a mortgage would the club be able to find investment based on returning the funds over a period of time even if it was 20 years? What as I asked above also is the number a business a business would be prepared to pay per year to have its name on the stadium?

I’m looking for reasons for it to be viable
 
Scooby said:
I think our capacity is fine for our needs at the moment.

Celtic only get the advantage of a higher capacity when they play in the champions league, and possibly a handful of SPFL games.

It all comes down to winning the league. If we win the league, their capacity does not matter as much.
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You say that scooby but the increase capacity at Parkhead gives Celtic at lease a 3.5m head start over us figures wise based on actual ticket sales and not capacity
 
Scooby said:
I think our capacity is fine for our needs at the moment.

Celtic only get the advantage of a higher capacity when they play in the champions league, and possibly a handful of SPFL games.

It all comes down to winning the league. If we win the league, their capacity does not matter as much.
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We clearly dont have a big enough stadium hence we have had to cut Celtics allocation due season tickets sold being so high this year. We should look to increase the Capacity to around 55-58k.

When we start winning the league again season tickets demand will be even higher than currently.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Was debating this on twitter the other night.

In 2017 celtic over the year had 120k fans more than we did. Did a bit of rough maths at say at £30 on average it’s about 3.5m a year more in revenue than we bring in in ticket sales not including upturn in food, merchandise etc.

So what would the cost of a new Govan stand be or even two stands behind the goal said to be replaced in broomloan and Copland? 20m? 30m? Surely with the right partner involved you would recoup that investment in 10 years max just with the ticket sales alone.

I know these debates come up on here often but they always seem to be disrgarded as folly and too expensive but when you see the extra revenue Celtic get simply due to capacity it might be one that needs to be addressed
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AndythephotoDr said:
Was debating this on twitter the other night.

In 2017 celtic over the year had 120k fans more than we did. Did a bit of rough maths at say at £30 on average it’s about 3.5m a year more in revenue than we bring in in ticket sales not including upturn in food, merchandise etc.

So what would the cost of a new Govan stand be or even two stands behind the goal said to be replaced in broomloan and Copland? 20m? 30m? Surely with the right partner involved you would recoup that investment in 10 years max just with the ticket sales alone.

I know these debates come up on here often but they always seem to be disrgarded as folly and too expensive but when you see the extra revenue Celtic get simply due to capacity it might be one that needs to be addressed
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No they SAID they had 120k more fans than us, well known liars
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Mate, replacing the Govan Stand with a new one to the same high standards or better would cost £50m-£75m I'd imagine, once you factor in demolition and then building costs. Then there's the loss of revenue whilst the work goes on that has to be factored in. Your figures are way out.
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/04/liverpool-new-main-stand-anfield-corporate-seats

You are spot on at the very high end of your estimate mate. Liverpool Construction costs were 75M
 
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There is a couple of eastend blokes with a meccano set that do a quick and cheap job, they did a job around Parkhead a few years ago, think it was a Piggery they built for someone.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
You seem knowledgeable on why not to do it but not so on why we should do it, whilst I don’t have your experience in construction I did manage a small business that was reasonably successful turning 1.5 to 2m a year. I do understand figures and speculating to accumulate.

We have 12k waiting list, the stadium capacity is 51k so a stadium of 65k is probably the size we need. The question I’ve posed after you gave me the fantastically insightful figures is what income would these extra seats actually generate per year.

I couldn’t afford to buy my house so I took out a mortgage would the club be able to find investment based on returning the funds over a period of time even if it was 20 years? What as I asked above also is the number a business a business would be prepared to pay per year to have its name on the stadium?

I’m looking for reasons for it to be viable
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You provided your own figures for how much additional seats would generate when you quoted the Dhims figures did you not?

Also, where are you getting this 12k season ticket waiting list from? The season ticket thread suggested figures between 6k and 9k but, as far as I can tell from the posts thereafter, virtually everyone who was actively looking for a season ticket got one. You can be sure if 12k 'missed out' we'd be hearing all about it on here. That said, I don't doubt that, on occasion, we could easily fill 65k seats. Easily - for the right match. We wouldn't be filling it with season ticket holders and we wouldn't be filling it for Livi on a Wednesday night, for example. So, I don't agree we NEED 65k, but I do agree a higher capacity is desirable.

I'm not looking for reasons for it to be 'not viable' - I don't have to look, because there are circa £150m reasons why it isn't viable right now staring us in the face. As I've said, the 'payback' period would be well in excess of a decade, probably even two. The only way I see it being 'viable', at any time, is going down the dreaded Emirates Stadium route - and that is not going to meet with universal approval.
 
Coplandbear said:
Surely filling in the corners and putting the screens on top of the Broamloan and Copland stands could be achieved first with a possible third tier on Govan stand later on down the line. That sounds decent to me.
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Filling in the corners would add very little, and mostly restricted view because of the massive roof supports behind the screens. Because of the construction and roof supports for the copland / govan / broomie as is, any 3rd tier on a stand means 3 new stands / roofs / supports and mega millions. Pie in the sky just now, stadium reconstruction is a long way down the road.

First and absolutely foremost we need to use our resources to win the fucking league. Simple.
 
We need to concentrate our finances on the team first.
In the future though i would be happy with this 3 tier Govan stand

1zldaap.jpg
 
Valley Bluenose said:
You provided your own figures for how much additional seats would generate when you quoted the Dhims figures did you not?

Also, where are you getting this 12k season ticket waiting list from? The season ticket thread suggested figures between 6k and 9k but, as far as I can tell from the posts thereafter, virtually everyone who was actively looking for a season ticket got one. You can be sure if 12k 'missed out' we'd be hearing all about it on here. That said, I don't doubt that, on occasion, we could easily fill 65k seats. Easily - for the right match. We wouldn't be filling it with season ticket holders and we wouldn't be filling it for Livi on a Wednesday night, for example. So, I don't agree we NEED 65k, but I do agree a higher capacity is desirable.

I'm not looking for reasons for it to be 'not viable' - I don't have to look, because there are circa £150m reasons why it isn't viable right now staring us in the face. As I've said, the 'payback' period would be well in excess of a decade, probably even two. The only way I see it being 'viable', at any time, is going down the dreaded Emirates Stadium route - and that is not going to meet with universal approval.
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I gave figures based on ticket sales at an average ticket price, no factoring of any other income stream from that.

The facts are season on season Celtic bring in more paying fans than we do simply due to the capacity. If we can close that ticket vacuum we closed the revenue shortage. More bums on seats brings in more money. The club would do well in my opinion to find a cost effective way to increase capacity in increase number of fans paying money in the ground either that with the the right partner increase what we have.
 
The problem with filling the corners is, as is stated every time one of these threads comes along, the roofs of the three stands. Or, more specifically, the pillars that hold the roof beams up. It would be interesting to see (particularly from a cost perspective) if these roof beams could be replaced by much longer units with new pillars out-with the footprint of the stadium whilst retaining the original roof structure below. That would allow the filling of the corners to full height without restricted view seats. If it was done, I’d also have a bridge out to Broomloan road for away fan access.

The real problem would be the Sandy Jardine stand roof as the new beam would be enormous. Changing to a cantilever roof for it may be the way to achieve it - think Old Trafford or even the bigotdome (although due to having space around the stadium there would be no requirement for pillars like their north stand has in the top tier). Especially if it could be done with a potential third tier in mind.

The expansion at Anfield by Liverpool is done by building the extensions at the back of the existing stand. They’ve now done 2 like that (the stand opposite the main stand was done a few years back) and have only the Anfield Road end left to do.
 
RFC417 said:
Filling in the corners would add very little, and mostly restricted view because of the massive roof supports behind the screens. Because of the construction and roof supports for the copland / govan / broomie as is, any 3rd tier on a stand means 3 new stands / roofs / supports and mega millions. Pie in the sky just now, stadium reconstruction is a long way down the road.

First and absolutely foremost we need to use our resources to win the fucking league. Simple.
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I believe it was around 5-6 thousand in original plans.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
I gave figures based on ticket sales at an average ticket price, no factoring of any other income stream from that.

The facts are season on season Celtic bring in more paying fans than we do simply due to the capacity. If we can close that ticket vacuum we closed the revenue shortage. More bums on seats brings in more money. The club would do well in my opinion to find a cost effective way to increase capacity in increase number of fans paying money in the ground either that with the the right partner increase what we have.
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'Cost effective' - that, right there, is where it all falls down.

There will come a time when we HAVE to redevelop the Stadium or, God forbid, move. That is the time to look at these options because spending that sort of money on a projected, let's say 20 year payback, is not something you do for the Hell of it.

Right now, I just want to see Dave King fund the assembling of a team that ultimately gives him the honour of unfurling the league flag in front of the Main Stand at Ibrox. Do that a few seasons in a row, followed by CL group stages and we might be in a position to commission a 'feasibility study'.
 
Not cost effective and would probably be cheaper knocking down the three stands than spending tens of millions to increase capacity by a few thousand.

Even given how old the stands are now, Ibrox still looks like an ultra modern stadium, It looks good because no expense was spared when it was being built,It was built to last unlike our neighbours from the east ends.

We have a lovely home and i wouldn't change it for the world.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
I gave figures based on ticket sales at an average ticket price, no factoring of any other income stream from that.

The facts are season on season Celtic bring in more paying fans than we do simply due to the capacity. If we can close that ticket vacuum we closed the revenue shortage. More bums on seats brings in more money. The club would do well in my opinion to find a cost effective way to increase capacity in increase number of fans paying money in the ground either that with the the right partner increase what we have.
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You have one thought stuck in your head and refuse to get off it. Yes they bring in £3.5m more a year. But where do you think that we're getting the £100m needed to increase this? Do you think someone is going to give us it interest free? Do you think that if Gerrard doesn't work out and we go back to square one again next summer that we have the same rush for STs as we do this year? Can you guarentee that ST rush will be the same every year for the next 40 years that it will take to make money on this? It's not cost effective. Not even a little bit.
 
MarkWayneHateley said:
I honestly don’t think we would need to add much , just refurbish what we have get it bang up to date, fill in the corners with more top class hospitality and boxes instead of screens, put the screens elsewhere perhaps in the corners of main stand/Copland and renew them to modern standards .

Our capacity is fine we need more income from corporate and hospitality the place needs a walkway /pedestrianise Edmiston drive, proper fanzone, get rid of the appalling portakabins and put a proper ticket office in the club shop . A small museum with resteraunt for families , and bobs your uncle .
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The capacity should be upped to 55k imo.
 
I just can't imagine a business case for expansion I'm afraid. The costs for new roofs & supports or knock down & build new stands makes it very difficult to be cost effective in my opinion.
 
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