What cost is a new stand and would it be viable considering ST sales?

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gersmad said:
We need to concentrate our finances on the team first.
In the future though i would be happy with this 3 tier Govan stand

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That would be enough any idea how many seats that would add and how viable an extra tier would be and what that would cost?
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Was debating this on twitter the other night.

In 2017 celtic over the year had 120k fans more than we did. Did a bit of rough maths at say at £30 on average it’s about 3.5m a year more in revenue than we bring in in ticket sales not including upturn in food, merchandise etc.

So what would the cost of a new Govan stand be or even two stands behind the goal said to be replaced in broomloan and Copland? 20m? 30m? Surely with the right partner involved you would recoup that investment in 10 years max just with the ticket sales alone.

I know these debates come up on here often but they always seem to be disrgarded as folly and too expensive but when you see the extra revenue Celtic get simply due to capacity it might be one that needs to be addressed
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Ticket sales are required to run club day by day.
I don't think there's extra to fund building work.
 
A 3rd tier on the Govan stand would be the dream.

Moving the seating to the back two tiers and leaving the whole front one for safe standing.

Corporate upgrade thrown in as well. It’d cost big time though
 
Sale and demand will determine if there will be any extension. The Tims have 60k but as we all know they rarely get over 50k turning up, we are at peak capacity just now and may be able to sell another 5k tickets for most matches but if we had a situation were we had 10k tickets for every game would there be the demand to buy ST's in the first place as you would be able to get a ticket for just about every game you want.
 
I get what everyone is saying regarding having a winning team on the park again and putting expansion on hold, but in the background we need to be starting now as it takes a few years to plan these sort of things. A feasibility study needs to be commissioned and options looked at and that shouldn’t attract a lot of money.
 
Fill in the corners is possible with seats and remove TV,s but looking at circa £15m I’d have thought
 
TheGoalie44 said:
You have one thought stuck in your head and refuse to get off it. Yes they bring in £3.5m more a year. But where do you think that we're getting the £100m needed to increase this? Do you think someone is going to give us it interest free? Do you think that if Gerrard doesn't work out and we go back to square one again next summer that we have the same rush for STs as we do this year? Can you guarentee that ST rush will be the same every year for the next 40 years that it will take to make money on this? It's not cost effective. Not even a little bit.
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I’ve given plenty of fulsome answers. So just to summarise. Initially was asking cost of development. Even when given estematied figures there is scope to bring in partners for build and naming rights which generates income, it’s something that could be paid back over a long period of time like any mortgage or loan would be. Are we that short term where we don’t think of what legacy is left for future generations? A club that is coming up for 150 years old should be aware of what it means and will mean to generation s of people
 
Still annoys me to this day that we didn't stick to the original plans to bring it close to 70 thousands with both corners filled in and screens that could be lowered. Can't understand why someone would think it would be a better idea to put permanent screens in instead of extra seats especially when football at the time of the plans was getting bigger and bigger.
 
Can the pitch be made any lower by excavation? That would bring the stands all round a bit closer. Say two rows closer all the way round. Wonder what volume of seats that would create?
 
AndythephotoDr said:
I’ve given plenty of fulsome answers. So just to summarise. Initially was asking cost of development. Even when given estematied figures there is scope to bring in partners for build and naming rights which generates income, it’s something that could be paid back over a long period of time like any mortgage or loan would be. Are we that short term where we don’t think of what legacy is left for future generations? A club that is coming up for 150 years old should be aware of what it means and will mean to generation s of people
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And who's loaning this £100m? And seeing as this is all about £3.5m a year for the club, you wouldn't want to use that to pay it all back. So say we keep £1.5m profit of it and use £2m per year to pay this loan back...Who's waiting 50 years before they even see a return on their initial investment? That doesn't even factor in interest rates. I'll even half it for you for naming rights, just to be kind. Who's waiting 25 years to make a £2m profit in the 26th year?
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Can the pitch be made any lower by excavation? That would bring the stands all round a bit closer. Say two rows closer all the way round. Wonder what volume of seats that would create?
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I'm pretty sure the club have stated before that they couldn't or wouldn't lower the pitch anymore due to the water table and the drainage problems it would result in. They last lowered it when the enclosures were seated I'm sure, and apart from anything else, it would almost certainly mean seats in the club deck would become restricted view and negate the benefit of 2 or 3 extra rows at the front.
 
Nick Jarvis said:
I'm pretty sure the club have stated before that they couldn't or wouldn't lower the pitch anymore due to the water table and the drainage problems it would result in. They last lowered it when the enclosures were seated I'm sure, and apart from anything else, it would almost certainly mean seats in the club deck would become restricted view and negate the benefit of 2 or 3 extra rows at the front.
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Perfect answer
 
TheGoalie44 said:
And who's loaning this £100m? And seeing as this is all about £3.5m a year for the club, you wouldn't want to use that to pay it all back. So say we keep £1.5m profit of it and use £2m per year to pay this loan back...Who's waiting 50 years before they even see a return on their initial investment? That doesn't even factor in interest rates. I'll even half it for you for naming rights, just to be kind. Who's waiting 25 years to make a £2m profit in the 26th year?
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Mate don’t take this the wrong way but how do,you think other projects are built? How did Emirate and Ethiad get involved with certain projects? Rangers would need to find some partners and some involvement with local council. If Rangers can get along just now with the income 51,000 punters generate them why not put the extra ticket revenue into payi g off any loans to build stuff.
 
Gramps1 said:
Total pipe dream but could you imagine knocking the Copland down building a new stand with 15 k safe standing at the front and 7500 seats at the back for all those in the Copland just now so they can sit on there holes.
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I think you mean "their holes".
Maybe if you'd sat down on your hole and listened in English lessons you'd have known that. :p
Copland Rear Rule!
 
TheGoalie44 said:
And who's loaning this £100m? And seeing as this is all about £3.5m a year for the club, you wouldn't want to use that to pay it all back. So say we keep £1.5m profit of it and use £2m per year to pay this loan back...Who's waiting 50 years before they even see a return on their initial investment? That doesn't even factor in interest rates. I'll even half it for you for naming rights, just to be kind. Who's waiting 25 years to make a £2m profit in the 26th year?
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Also to your point the figure of 3.5m is based on actual ticket sales at the moment because Celtic had 120k more fans through the door thanwee did buying tickets. It’s not based on what 10k fans per match or what ever the actual upturn would be. If it was based on that the figure would be much larger
 
AndythephotoDr said:
Mate don’t take this the wrong way but how do,you think other projects are built? How did Emirate and Ethiad get involved with certain projects? Rangers would need to find some partners and some involvement with local council. If Rangers can get along just now with the income 51,000 punters generate them why not put the extra ticket revenue into payi g off any loans to build stuff.
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Ethiad was build by Manchester Council. Even if it weren't, Man City can magic a Billion out the air no bother. Emirates was built because
a) Emirates were happy to put a huge amount of money into it, money nowhere near like we'd get,
b) Aresnal as a club, make Millions of profit each year and turn over hundreds of millions, we run at a loss
c) The sale of Highbury flats made a huge amount for the club, we have nothing to sell to pay for this
d) Arsenal's credit score would wipe the floor with ours, we were buzzing to get a £3m o/d at high rates this season...the First credit we've had in a while
e) Emirates was paid off in 8 years and could have been done even sooner. Not 50 years.
 
Structurally we can't fill in the corners where the screens are.

Any redevelopment would likely require the demolition and rebuilding of a stand. The cost and impact of this may put off the board who will have other areas to focus investment. Should we have anybody willing to stump up the cash then that is different.

I just can't see any large scale redevelopment of the stadium in the near future.
 
gordon_blue said:
During a summer, it might be possible to remove the south walls of the Copland and Broomloan Stands, and the east & west walls of the Bill Struth stand - and link them up. Curved or straight.

Still leaving vehicle access at the lower level so that emergency vehicles, servicemen parading and folk bringing on the training stuff and the lights etc can still get through.

Surely that wouldn't be too expensive?
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Never been a fan of the club deck stair well or the yellowed perspex on the Copland and broomloan so that idea would block the view. Though I'd like more corporate boxes, like la Bombonera between the stands.
 
rez1872 said:
Structurally we can't fill in the corners where the screens are.

Any redevelopment would likely require the demolition and rebuilding of a stand. The cost and impact of this may put off the board who will have other areas to focus investment. Should we have anybody willing to stump up the cash then that is different.

I just can't see any large scale redevelopment of the stadium in the near future.
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Except for Aberdeen, I don't see any ever again in Scotland. The money is just not there. The only reason Aberdeen can do it is because Milne owns the land under Pittodire and will whack up flats quicker than I can down a pint.

In order for any team to do this, they need to move the stadium and have land under it worth money. Arseanl/Spurs Etc. Would you be happy moving Ibrox somewhere else? I wouldn't. Would celtic be happy moving? I doubt it. It just won't happen again in Scotland. Teams will just continued to fix up and add bits here and there when desperately needed.
 
1690 said:
I'd love them to announce an extension to a 60,000 seater stadium during out 150th anniversary celebrations in 2022, but I can't see it happening to be honest. I know nothing of the logistics, but I've been told the way the stadium's currently built and the way the foundations are, extending it would be impossible without having a prohibitively huge sum of money to spend on it.
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I was actually told that there was extra foundation and steel work put in place when they built the govan stand. This was to facilitate a third tier if needed
 
We don't need it. Many games that are sold out we have a couple of thousand empty seats. Get secondary ticket working fluently and bring in a lot more revenue that way.
 
In the last decade both hearts and hibs have built decent new stands so it can be done. Adding a third tier to govan stand and using the existing govan rear for an extension of bar 72 is what is needed
 
KilwinningBlue said:
We don't need it. Many games that are sold out we have a couple of thousand empty seats. Get secondary ticket working fluently and bring in a lot more revenue that way.
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Finally some fucking sense on this thread.

People really need to curb their enthusiasm a little. We've been fucked over and have had to crawl our way back over five years. We're still playing significant financial catch up in terms of the product on the pitch. We've had to rely on a number of interest free loans from directors.

Aye, lets spunk £50M on a new stand......
 
Fergus Macann Design Consultants specialise in new Football stadia.

Apparently they guarantee to undercut any genuine quote by at least 75%
 
TimzRFudz said:
Finally some fucking sense on this thread.

People really need to curb their enthusiasm a little. We've been fucked over and have had to crawl our way back over five years. We're still playing significant financial catch up in terms of the product on the pitch. We've had to rely on a number of interest free loans from directors.

Aye, lets spunk £50M on a new stand......
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Away and dry your eyes. It’s a football forum where you can talk about anything. If you don’t agree with something fair enough but don’t tell the rest of us how to think
 
Tumbling_dice said:
Still annoys me to this day that we didn't stick to the original plans to bring it close to 70 thousands with both corners filled in and screens that could be lowered. Can't understand why someone would think it would be a better idea to put permanent screens in instead of extra seats especially when football at the time of the plans was getting bigger and bigger.
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The screens can go, no one would miss them.
 
Old Trafford doesn’t have big screens. They’ve went for as many seats as they can possibly get.

Filling in the screens with seats should be a long term goal. Move the superstore into Edminson House with a museum upstairs.
 
The only way a massive redevelopment of Ibrox will be affordable in the foreseeable future (10-20 years) is if there is a mass uptake of Club1872 subscriptions, taking the form of a de facto membership scheme. That 'mass uptake' would need to take the form of a de facto membership scheme.

That would provide enough capital over 5-10 years, in conjunction with funds from individuals and bank financing, but I can't see it happening.
Filling in the corners is structurally difficult and prohibitively expensive, as mentioned. We should learn from the Club Deck experience that working around difficult structural restrictions doesn't generate value for money. I wonder how much we've spent lowering the pitch, building the Club Deck and filling in the corners instead of just demolishing the three other stands for a 60-70,000 seater in the early or mid-90s. I know demand fluctuated more on a game by game basis then, but a bit-by-bit approach is always likely to lead to wastage, albeit the aesthetics of the ground have been preserved brilliantly.
As an aside, we can't lower the pitch any further because of the water table.
 
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Govan ha
AndythephotoDr said:
Was debating this on twitter the other night.

In 2017 celtic over the year had 120k fans more than we did. Did a bit of rough maths at say at £30 on average it’s about 3.5m a year more in revenue than we bring in in ticket sales not including upturn in food, merchandise etc.

So what would the cost of a new Govan stand be or even two stands behind the goal said to be replaced in broomloan and Copland? 20m? 30m? Surely with the right partner involved you would recoup that investment in 10 years max just with the ticket sales alone.

I know these debates come up on here often but they always seem to be disrgarded as folly and too expensive but when you see the extra revenue Celtic get simply due to capacity it might be one that needs to be addressed[/QUOTE

Govan has the foundations to add an extra tier.
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AndythephotoDr said:
LOL!
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To answer your original post title - Liverpool spent £115M on a new stand to the standard of what we would probably be looking for. For an extra 8,000 seats.
Its utterly mental to think about doing something with the stadium right now. This is a knee-jerk reaction to a massive uptake in season tickets based on a new manager whose team haven't kicked a ball yet.
 
How is this actually going to be financed? Loans and is so, where from?

Winning team needs to be on the park first and any immediate maintenance done.
 
Any idea how much money we have access to?

I reckon that we can spend about £30m from the share issue and sponsorship and season tickets. We should put the lot into the team to make sure we win the league - and then use the champions league money from next year to build the stand.
 
I'm glad the club didn't share the same pessimism and lack of ambition back in the 1920's when they built our iconic main stand.

We are Rangers and second best is never good enough, be it on the park or off it.

We are the biggest club in the land, and should have the biggest ground.

We have a support that has demonstrated unwavering loyalty through the banter years, and when the good times come again we'll need that extra capacity.

In terms of finances, where there is a will there is a way.

Get the support and their families and friends behind the lotto. Become the most proactive fan base by actively buying from our sponsors, make companies desperate to be our partners. Continue to sell out Ibrox. Buy the kit.

If Hamilton can spend £750k on a new pitch, Hearts £10m on a new stand, and the sheep build a new ground, surely we can find a way to finance an increased capacity?

Think big.
 
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