Why does every poor result get blamed on Tav?

Chris the Bandito said:
That is far more a criticism of his team mates than it is of the right back.

Take Tav out of that team, replace him with any of the other options we have and we're 4th this season.
Click to expand...
For some reason he’s the only one of our good players that doesn’t get the ‘look at the players he’s playing with’ excuse.
 
Davie Weir said:
Through very little fault of his own. He’s scored some belters against them and had some great performances.

Why judge a player on what celtic fans think of him?
Click to expand...
The vast majority of his goals have counted for absolutely nothing.

You don't think it's concerning our captain doesn't worry our biggest rivals? Constantly getting the run around in Old Firms? On the receiving end of multiple heavy defeats by them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SCG
deBoersHeader said:
The vast majority of his goals have counted for absolutely nothing.

You don't think it's concerning our captain doesn't worry our biggest rivals? Constantly getting the run around in Old Firms? On the receiving end of multiple heavy defeats by them?
Click to expand...
Of course he worries celtic fans ffs.

Scores against them more than any of our players so of course he does.
 
JW1988 said:
He quite literally is both of these things though.
You might want to have a look at what the word never means
Click to expand...
Do you watch him in a game? By the sounds of it , obviously not. He is a total liability in defence and unable to motivate a team
 
SCG said:
Do you watch him in a game? By the sounds of it , obviously not. He is a total liability in defence and unable to motivate a team
Click to expand...
Is he captain? Yes
Is he right back? Yes

So he quite literally IS a captain and IS a right back.

If the “never a captain” was prefaced with “In my opinion he is” instead of being stated as a fact it wouldn’t look so bloody stupid and be untrue.
 
NFTG said:
You are implying that, how do Celtic have the best squad? It is because they spend more money yes? Because that aside it is open to question if they do have the best squad, first 11, maybe, but their squad is terrible.

Counter to your goals point is this.

Cantwell, Sima, Dessers and Matondo have 34 league goals between

Kyogo, O Riley, Maeda and Palma have 35 league goals between them and the likes of Kuhn, Holm and Forrest aren't adding much to that total.

If any of the Rangers players were hitting penalties, give it to Lawrence, Cantwell, Dessers, any of them, they would have 46 league goals between them

Our attackers numbers are in part skewed by a right back hitting penalties. If Cantwell had 17 goals, 11 of which were penalties, does he then meet the criteria and Tav is all of a sudden a less relevant force? You have to accept that for attackers numbers to improve massively Tavernier will need to score less goals
Click to expand...
I'm not implying anything. I'm just stating a fact. Celtic have won more trophies and beat us regularly because they have better players than us. I never mentioned finances at all.

Some of the best players we've had recently cost relative buttons. Morelos, Aribo, Bassey, Butland, Tav, Kamara. Compare that to fees for Davies, Matondo, Dessers and Lammers. It's not what you spend, it's how you spend it.

James Forrest has 3 league goals actually, only 2 less than both Cantwell and Matondo. He plays about 8 minutes of football every couple of weeks. Hatate has 3 goals, he's played 11 games. David Turnbull has two more than Cantwell and he left Celtic nearly 4 months ago.

Roofe has 1 league goal in 13.
McCausland 1 in 24.
Silva 2 in 13.
Lawrence 1 in 20
Wright 0 in 19

Players in attacking positions that don't give you goals. If you think that's a decent return, I don't know what to tell you.

Celtic’s strikers have combined for 23 league goals. We're at 18.

It's blindingly obvious where our issues lie and it's nothing to do with Tav hitting penalties. Which he does of course because he's the best person for it.
 
Midfield General said:
I agree although i think its fair to say he is not playing his best but as far as im concerned he has plenty credit in the bank. Lets just say those that want rid of him get their way,who are we replacing him with?Probably Sterling,a decent solid player but he has scored one goal in his entire career,we cant afford to lose the attacking option Tav gives us at the moment.
Click to expand...
Not the bad wayward passing passing major mistakes in big games that Tav brings eh
Davie Weir said:
Through very little fault of his own. He’s scored some belters against them and had some great performances.

Why judge a player on what celtic fans think of him?
Click to expand...
It's not just them let's be honest every team see him as a weakness Sterling hinting tonight about the attitude of some of our players and quite rightly so,I just read the quote Tav wrote in a rangers programme seasons ago talking about how we can't cope in Scotland with teams who get in our face, read that from a captain of Rangers,it's disgraceful and as true then as it is now and he is still there and captaining our club now,god help us .
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
I'm not implying anything. I'm just stating a fact. Celtic have won more trophies and beat us regularly because they have better players than us. I never mentioned finances at all.

Some of the best players we've had recently cost relative buttons. Morelos, Aribo, Bassey, Butland, Tav, Kamara. Compare that to fees for Davies, Matondo, Dessers and Lammers. It's not what you spend, it's how you spend it.

James Forrest has 3 league goals actually, only 2 less than both Cantwell and Matondo. He plays about 8 minutes of football every couple of weeks. Hatate has 3 goals, he's played 11 games. David Turnbull has two more than Cantwell and he left Celtic nearly 4 months ago.

Roofe has 1 league goal in 13.
McCausland 1 in 24.
Silva 2 in 13.
Lawrence 1 in 20
Wright 0 in 19

Players in attacking positions that don't give you goals. If you think that's a decent return, I don't know what to tell you.

Celtic’s strikers have combined for 23 league goals. We're at 18.

It's blindingly obvious where our issues lie and it's nothing to do with Tav hitting penalties. Which he does of course because he's the best person for it.
Click to expand...

This season, Celtic don’t have anything like a better squad than Rangers, they didn’t the season we made it to Seville either.

Celtic strikers have 23 if our strikers had hit penalties ours would have more.

The issue in terms of numbers when one set of players hits penalties and the other doesn’t is related to penalties…
 
SaulBearenson said:
Yeah, you lot who compare to previous captains (you yourself brought one into it: "Barry Ferguson gets it tight on here but he was a real Rangers captain.
He'd have dragged 6 points out of these last 2 games by hook or by crook.").

There's very much a double standard in that you can refer to previous captains as a means of insulting our current captain, but any retort or use of the same argumental device is laughable to you.

If comparisons cannot be made with our own captains, then it's only natural that people will look to compare with others, particularly when the board is filled with comments about Gough, Ferguson, Greig etc and how they would never preside over failure. Except Greig very much did.

If trophies won are the mark of success, then for 10 long years, Greig presided over us being (at best) second best. In that period, by the very definitions applied to slate Tav, he was a serial loser (again, using the same terms of reference as you lot apply to Tav).

1964/65 - 5th place 6pts behind *League cup
1965/66 - 2nd place 2pts behind *Scottish cup
1966/67 - 2nd place 3pts behind
1967/68 - 2nd place 2pts behind
1968/69 - 2nd place 5pts behind
1969/70 - 2nd place 13pts behind
1970/71 - 4th place 15pts behind
1971/72 - 3rd place 16pts behind European CWC
1972/73 - 2nd place 1pt behind. *Scottish Cup
1973/74 - 3rd place 5pts behind
Click to expand...
Wow. When you see it like that, it's amazing that we hold this loser in such high regard.
 
NFTG said:
This season, Celtic don’t have anything like a better squad than Rangers, they didn’t the season we made it to Seville either.

Celtic strikers have 23 if our strikers had hit penalties ours would have more.

The issue in terms of numbers when one set of players hits penalties and the other doesn’t is related to penalties…
Click to expand...
They have 8 more goals but only 3 more points.

We've conceded less goals but sit 2nd.

The defence is not the problem.
 
deBoersHeader said:
And we're second in it with him.

He's laughed at by the tramp support.

Rangers captains of the past worried them now he's a joke figure.
Click to expand...
That’s just not true. Maybe the mentally challengeds on social media claim they love Tav at us etc but in real life, the ones I know via work, neighbours and weekly 7s game, every single one of them have said many times they can’t figure out why he gets so much stick as they’d love to have a right back like him given his contribution.
 
deBoersHeader said:
And we're second in it with him.

He's laughed at by the tramp support.

Rangers captains of the past worried them now he's a joke figure.
Click to expand...
Morelos was also laughed at by their support, not just online but aactual real life too given the 5 minute YouTube videos they’d made of him and his misses against them

Yet most on here thought he was irreplaceable
 
RangersLad1983 said:
Not the bad wayward passing passing major mistakes in big games that Tav brings eh

It's not just them let's be honest every team see him as a weakness Sterling hinting tonight about the attitude of some of our players and quite rightly so,I just read the quote Tav wrote in a rangers programme seasons ago talking about how we can't cope in Scotland with teams who get in our face, read that from a captain of Rangers,it's disgraceful and as true then as it is now and he is still there and captaining our club now,god help us .
Click to expand...
The captain being honest about players attitude being wrong and not coping with teams is not a disgrace.

It’s literally what fans ask for in interviews and press conferences, honesty.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
They have 8 more goals but only 3 more points.

We've conceded less goals but sit 2nd.

The defence is not the problem.
Click to expand...

It’s a redundant stat without context,

We just drew with them in part because we lost 3 goals

We just lost to Ross County because we lost 3 goals

We were bang in a title race and have started to concede goals, that very much is a problem
 
I keep repeating myself here but, I’ve been a big supporter of Tav over the years. He’s never been the best defensively, but what he’s given us in an attacking sense has been remarkable.

He was terrific during our run to the Europa League final when I felt he really played a captain’s part throughout and he’s stepped up with crucial goals to win crucial games, most recently to lift the League Cup this season, but when you compare him with captains of the past he doesn’t have the same character those players did in terms of galvanising his team when the chips are down, IMO.

This season he’s been good at times, but he looks leggy now, rarely appears to get up in support of our attacks let alone being the driving force behind them and the overall impression is, after the best part of a decade at the club, that perhaps he’s past his best.

The last thing I want for him is his legacy to be sullied as he’s ignominiously stripped of the captaincy and put out to pasture in the reserves so all things considered it would probably be best for both parties if he moved on in the summer.
 
NFTG said:
It’s a redundant stat without context,

We just drew with them in part because we lost 3 goals

We just lost to Ross County because we lost 3 goals

We were bang in a title race and have started to concede goals, that very much is a problem
Click to expand...
Here's a bit of context.

We started the old firm game with Silva, Lawrence and Wright behind the striker. In a game we were trying to win. They have 4 league goals between them all season. How do you win games by picking attacking players that don't contribute goals? We only managed to get back into the game when we finally put an attacking threat on the pitch.

The Ross County game should have been put to bed before half time. We had more than enough chances. But if you don't kill teams off, you run the risk of letting teams back into the game.

Last night, we could have played another 90 minutes and not scored. We created one decent chance with Sima early on, then nothing. We didn't even look like scoring.

Our attack is powder puff.

Obviously, you have to lose goals to lose games but celtic have conceded 3 more goals than us but lost 3 less games.

We need more firepower.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
Here's a bit of context.

We started the old firm game with Silva, Lawrence and Wright behind the striker. In a game we were trying to win. They have 4 league goals between them all season. How do you win games by picking attacking players that don't contribute goals? We only managed to get back into the game when we finally put an attacking threat on the pitch.

The Ross County game should have been put to bed before half time. We had more than enough chances. But if you don't kill teams off, you run the risk of letting teams back into the game.

Last night, we could have played another 90 minutes and not scored. We created one decent chance with Sima early on, then nothing. We didn't even look like scoring.

Our attack is powder puff.

Obviously, you have to lose goals to lose games but celtic have conceded 3 more goals than us but lost 3 less games.

We need more firepower.
Click to expand...

We could have been 1-0 down v Ross County after 30 seconds

We were then in front, it would have been a good idea to not conceded 3 goals.

We were 1-0 down v Celtic after 30 seconds. It would have been a good idea to no do that, then we wouldn’t have to get back in the game.
 
Barryhopez said:
:))so you have no proof of what you claim, just your opinion based on which emotions you experience after a (poor) result.
Click to expand...
Sterling has said today that ‘he doesn't now if the belief is there’
Not sure what’s more worrying, the idea that there is a lack of belief, or that he doesn’t know if there’s belief or not.
 
NFTG said:
We could have been 1-0 down v Ross County after 30 seconds

We were then in front, it would have been a good idea to not conceded 3 goals.

We were 1-0 down v Celtic after 30 seconds. It would have been a good idea to no do that, then we wouldn’t have to get back in the game.
Click to expand...
So just never concede a goal then and we should be fine. It's simple when you put it like that.

We can lose bad goals, it happens. The defenders we have can make mistakes that costs us points. It happens. By and large though, the defence does it's job.

You know what rarely happens? McCausland scoring a goal. You know what never happens? Scott Wright scoring a goal.

If it's the job of the likes of Goldson, Tav and Butland to keep the goals out, what's the job of the likes of Cantwell, Lawrence, McCausland, Wright, Matondo, Silva or even Dessers with 1 goal in his last 8 games? Because I'm arguing they're not doing it.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
So just never concede a goal then and we should be fine. It's simple when you put it like that.

We can lose bad goals, it happens. The defenders we have can make mistakes that costs us points. It happens. By and large though, the defence does it's job.

You know what rarely happens? McCausland scoring a goal. You know what never happens? Scott Wright scoring a goal.

If it's the job of the likes of Goldson, Tav and Butland to keep the goals out, what's the job of the likes of Cantwell, Lawrence, McCausland, Wright, Matondo, Silva or even Dessers with 1 goal in his last 8 games? Because I'm arguing they're not doing it.
Click to expand...


It seems a smart decision to me to not go 2-0 down v Celtic and not let Ross County score 3 goals yeah.

Let Dessers, McAusland or Wright take a penalty next time we get one then, problem solved.
 
Davie Weir said:
Yes, very poor but 99/100 that ends up anywhere but the back of our net.

To blame his defending for a fluke goal in a 3-3 draw as costing the league is wild.
Click to expand...
It was a massive goal that never happens if he isn’t riddled with anxiety at the sight of Maeda, 17 seconds in. I’m surprised anyone can downplay the significance of that moment.
 
For me he doesn't motivate the team,for instance look at King Richard,Terry Butcher,John Brown,Big Amo,Barry Ferguson,never in the same mould tavs head goes down when we go behind.
 
NFTG said:
It seems a smart decision to me to not go 2-0 down v Celtic and not let Ross County score 3 goals yeah.

Let Dessers, McAusland or Wright take a penalty next time we get one then, problem solved.
Click to expand...
Dessers struggles from 4 yards, let's not try him from 12. He'd probably try and round the keeper.

I've seen Tav cop a lot of flak on here before, some warranted, some bollocks, but to say our attackers don't score enough goals because he hits penalties is some take. How many penalties has Sima scored this season, he seems to manage fine without them?
 
Davie Weir said:
Yes, very poor but 99/100 that ends up anywhere but the back of our net.

To blame his defending for a fluke goal in a 3-3 draw as costing the league is wild.
Click to expand...
It’s not wild! If he actually just concentrated on the ball he would have been yards away from Maeda and it’s avoided. His hesitation/lacknof concentration is what allowed him to be in the position for a ‘flukey’ goal.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
Dessers struggles from 4 yards, let's not try him from 12. He'd probably try and round the keeper.

I've seen Tav cop a lot of flak on here before, some warranted, some bollocks, but to say our attackers don't score enough goals because he hits penalties is some take. How many penalties has Sima scored this season, he seems to manage fine without them?
Click to expand...

Dessers has scored 13 out of 17 penalties he’s took in his career.

It’s not bollocks. It’s a fundamental fact,

Our attackers as a group score less goals because a RB takes penalties

If Celtics RB took penalties there attackers would score less goals. If Alastair Johnstone had scored the 9 league goals from the penalty Celtic have scored the attackers numbers you mention for Celtic would be 9 goals less. It’s taking numbers away from their attacking players

We literally played Celtic when O Riley added a goal to their attacking numbers from the penalty spot.
 
TriggersBroom said:
Hailed as honesty and I don’t have an issue with that

But I find it laughable that folk are still using quotes from several years ago from Tav and Goldson as a stick to beat them with whilst in the same breathe, praising Sterling for comments not too dissimilar in nature
Click to expand...
So what is the issue then Triggers? Why do these guys keep failing by the wayside at every opportunity they are presented to succeed?
 
NFTG said:
Dessers has scored 13 out of 17 penalties he’s took in his career.

It’s not bollocks. It’s a fundamental fact,

Our attackers as a group score less goals because a RB takes penalties

If Celtics RB took penalties there attackers would score less goals. If Alastair Johnstone had scored the 9 league goals from the penalty Celtic have scored the attackers numbers you mention for Celtic would be 9 goals less. It’s taking numbers away from attackers which Celtic players have.

We literally played Celtic when O Riley added a goal to their attacking numbers from the penalty spot.
Click to expand...
If you take away the 9 goals scored by celtics attack, their attack still has more goals than ours.
 
Davie Weir said:
Yes, very poor but 99/100 that ends up anywhere but the back of our net.

To blame his defending for a fluke goal in a 3-3 draw as costing the league is wild.
Click to expand...
Tbf Tav at their second goal drove me mental too. He got caught in possession by Maeda again, Butland was forced into making a save and they got the penalty from the resulting corner.

Is it Tav’s fault that Goldson jumped up with his elbows out? Obviously not. But the whole situation was totally needless and entirely avoidable if he hadn’t got done by Maeda. Again. You can’t have lapses in concentration like that in OF games, because you pay for them.
 
JS_11 said:
It’s not wild! If he actually just concentrated on the ball he would have been yards away from Maeda and it’s avoided. His hesitation/lacknof concentration is what allowed him to be in the position for a ‘flukey’ goal.
Click to expand...
It’s absolutely wild.

Shite defending? Yes.

Cost us the league? No.
 
Barryhopez said:
Imcluding himself I would assume? So there's an opinion from a player saying he doesn't have the belief as a collective. What's your thoughts on him admitting that?
Click to expand...
Not sure he has, but if he has any lack of belief, he isn't showing it to the extent of others.
Bothers me that he doesn’t know if there’s a lack of belief or not. There should be no doubt in his mind and it’s indicative that there is. He seems confused and lacking leadership.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top