Who's the "biggest" club with the poorest Honours list?

[SuffolkGer]

Newcastle for me, just because they’ve won %^*& all for so long now, they have to be up there for longest barren stretch / size. (Only counting top flight leagues or cups) the Arabs will help fix that though

 

[GovanFront4]

Wouldn't class Lyon as a big club tbh

For as long as I can remember they have been fairly successful so wasn't sure how they were considered before that '7IAR' period. It's certainly an anomaly though to be so barren, get massive success, then not win another title.

 

[muttley]

Was looking at Roma on Wikipedia the other day and was pretty surprised to learn that they've only been Champions of Italy 3 times. The last being 2001. I knew that was their last one and I knew they didn't have 10 because they don't have a star, but I'd have imagined they weren't that far off it!

Their Europa Conference League win the other week was their first major honour since 2007, and only the 15th in their entire history overall.

As the major football club in Italy's capital city that's fucking pish isn't it?

Any other candidates?

I'm sure Roma's recent ECL win is their first ever European trophy.

 

[ottawabear]

RB Leipzig

 

[Wazza]

I was always under the impression that Schalke were the biggest club in Germany until Bayern blew up

Lot of factors to look at at the end of day. Dortmunds average attendance is much bigger than Schalke this century but now Schalke have more members. Gladbach were always seen as second I believe. I always think the number of people a club employ should be looked at as well for this argument.

 

[Ataturk]

I was always under the impression that Schalke were the biggest club in Germany until Bayern blew up

Nürnberg in Germany are nicknamed Der Club and are seen almost like Queens Park, a legendary side from the pre-Bundesliga era.

They've won one cup since 1968.

From Wikipedia:
Der Club boasted the title of Deutscher Rekordmeister as holder of the most championships for over 60 years (although occasionally having to share the honour with Schalke 04) before being overtaken by Bayern Munich in 1987.

Germany honours its Bundesliga champions by allowing them to display the gold stars of the "Verdiente Meistervereine" – one star for three titles, two stars for five and three stars for ten. However, currently, only titles earned since 1963 in the Bundesliga are officially recognized. Despite winning the national title nine times, Nürnberg – the country's second-most successful side – is not entitled to sport any championship stars.

 

[Wazza]

Newcastle for me, just because they’ve won %^*& all for so long now, they have to be up there for longest barren stretch / size. (Only counting top flight leagues or cups) the Arabs will help fix that though

Imagine if they got another Gazza type figure this next 5 years, they’d absolutely rocket across the world at the end of the day.

 

[TheFantasticNinetiesFox]

Was looking at Roma on Wikipedia the other day and was pretty surprised to learn that they've only been Champions of Italy 3 times. The last being 2001. I knew that was their last one and I knew they didn't have 10 because they don't have a star, but I'd have imagined they weren't that far off it!

Their Europa Conference League win the other week was their first major honour since 2007, and only the 15th in their entire history overall.

As the major football club in Italy's capital city that's fucking pish isn't it?

Any other candidates?

Such a well written post concluded with “that’s fucking pish isn’t it?” Love it.

 

[Wazza]

Nürnberg in Germany are nicknamed der Club and are seen almost like Queens Park, a legendary side from the pre-Bundesliga era.

They've won one cup since 1968.

I was at their last home match in the season when they went down in 2014, lost to Hannover - wasn’t sold out or crazy. Strange atmosphere, like they’d accepted months ago they were down. They could get big crowds but it was seen as good away day for many Bundesliga Clubs as you could get a big away allocation.

 

[SilvioBerlusconi]

Roma, Napoli, Fiorentina and Lazio for the size of the clubs.

Valencia only have 6 league titles too but good array of European titles which helps.

 

[alex wright]

Saint etienne, joint most league titles in France, 10 along with psg, but haven't won ligue 1 since 1980 and have just been relegated to ligue 2 for next season.

I think our game against them in 1975 was my first European match at Ibrox.

 

[Nikau's Mullet]

Sheffield Wednesday. Most support in South Yorkshire by some distance, but there honours board is pretty grim. Think their last league titles were nearly 100 years ago as well.

 

[Ataturk]

I was at their last home match in the season when they went down in 2014, lost to Hannover - wasn’t sold out or crazy. Strange atmosphere, like they’d accepted months ago they were down. They could get big crowds but it was seen as good away day for many Bundesliga Clubs as you could get a big away allocation.

I've only just realised that was where the 1967 ECWC final took place.

Wasn't there a user on here years ago who said he couldn't go to that game because his dad was still wanted for war crimes? I assumed he was joking but he made references to it over many years so maybe not.

 

[Rev Paisley]

Borussia Dortmund only won eight league titles in their history. Their support makes them famous not their on the pitch success imo

Exactly like Newcastle (except with far more silver, so not really like them at all)

 

[KingBazza6]

Sheffield Wednesday. Most support in South Yorkshire by some distance, but there honours board is pretty grim. Think their last league titles were nearly 100 years ago as well.

“Most support in South Yorkshire” is some accolade.

 

[Wazza]

Travel well to be fair Sheffield Clubs.

Not too sure who is biggest mind, not sure Sheff Wed are miles ahead of Sheff Utd.

 

[Shengus Malengus]

Title said big club

It doesn’t.

 

[TN8]

I'm sure Roma's recent ECL win is their first ever European trophy.

They won the Fairs Cup in the early 60s - which I believe was the precursor to the UEFA Cup?

They've been in 4 European finals and won 2.

 

[mfgorm]

There are some "big" clubs these days who aren't historically big, in the position they're in because of money. Chelsea and Man City were up and down clubs until relatively recently. Some bigger clubs than them have been left behind because they don't have as much, Everton and Villa for example.

 

[barrheadbear]

Spurs

That is the first club that came too mind, serial underachievers.

 

[ScotiaPapac]

I was surprised that the Conference League was only Roma’s first European trophy. Even more surprised that they only have 3 league titles (2 of which are in my lifetime).

I’d put Arsenal in the mix. Probably the biggest club after us who have not won the European Cup. Only one European trophy too.

 

[EL CD6]

I was looking at the list of Bundesliga winners, and was surprised at some of the teams hwo had never won it (Leverkusen in particular)

Actually Leverkusen have only won two major trophies - one German Cup and one UEFA Cup. Pretty pish

I think Leverkusen are the only team to reach a Champions League final having never won a domestic championship. Happy for a statto to correct me on that though

 

[Daljam]

Steaua bucharest haven't won the Romanian top league since 2001, well FCSB in the top league are claiming to be the continuation of steaua bucharest but the real bucharest are currently in the liga 2 after starting over from the amateur leagues in romania a few years ago, they're currently in a legal dispute going through the courts in romania over who the trophies and history belongs to, read about it all a while ago very interesting, most people probably don't know that FCSB in the top league in romania are not the actual steaua bucharest.

 

[Tiny_Kilby_Loyal]

M

Was looking at Roma on Wikipedia the other day and was pretty surprised to learn that they've only been Champions of Italy 3 times. The last being 2001. I knew that was their last one and I knew they didn't have 10 because they don't have a star, but I'd have imagined they weren't that far off it!

Their Europa Conference League win the other week was their first major honour since 2007, and only the 15th in their entire history overall.

As the major football club in Italy's capital city that's fucking pish isn't it?

Any other candidates?

Must be Spurs

 

[GeordieRanger]

I went along to a former players` night in 2019, held to remember the 50th anniversary of our semi final against Newcastle in the Fairs Cup. It was held in a huge Working Men`s Club in Wallsend; and representing Rangers were Willie Johnston; Colin Stein; and Willie Henderson.
Newcastle had no less than eight of the team on stage, and numerous faces from later years in the audience; (the likes of Malcolm MacDonald).
The compere was the local evening newspaper columnist (of 50+ years) for United; who was an absolute mine of information.
At one point he addressed our legends, saying `your club has won countless trophies since then; and you will continue to win more`.......... `we`ve won bugger all since then; so by f*ck we`re clinging on to this for dear life` .
The room roared with self deprecating laughter.... 50 odd years is a hell of a wait for silverware.

John Gibson would have been the compere.

 

[GeordieRanger]

Without sounding rude anyone who thinks Leverkusen are a big Club really can’t know much about German Football. Just well ran, lot of Clubs could learn a lot from them. Probably the best example of a modern Club - proper Family Club and bloody good on Twitter for generating interest. Never qualified for the CL through winning out for example, yet have been in it about 15 times now I think. Not many members either, a huge source of income in Germany yet quite cheap to be one compared to other Clubs in Germany.

They've only got 27,000 members which is tiny in German terms given their 50+1 rule. Schalke have 160,000.

 

[OnTheWay]

Without sounding rude anyone who thinks Leverkusen are a big Club really can’t know much about German Football. Just well ran, lot of Clubs could learn a lot from them. Probably the best example of a modern Club - proper Family Club and bloody good on Twitter for generating interest. Never qualified for the CL through winning out for example, yet have been in it about 15 times now I think. Not many members either, a huge source of income in Germany yet quite cheap to be one compared to other Clubs in Germany.

They're very impressive.

 

[Wazza]

They've only got 27,000 members which is tiny in German terms given their 50+1 rule. Schalke have 160,000.

It’s only 35 euros to be a member as well. Bayern is 60. Some are over 100. That’s yearly as well.

 

[Wazza]

Steaua bucharest haven't won the Romanian top league since 2001, well FCSB in the top league are claiming to be the continuation of steaua bucharest but the real bucharest are currently in the liga 2 after starting over from the amateur leagues in romania a few years ago, they're currently in a legal dispute going through the courts in romania over who the trophies and history belongs to, read about it all a while ago very interesting, most people probably don't know that FCSB in the top league in romania are not the actual steaua bucharest.

Tried to understand this and the CSKA Sofia carry on a few times and have given up!!

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Last trophy 1969.

Don't we know it!

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Frankfurt only have 6 trophies only won the league once.

1958/59, I would think.

 

[Daljam]

Tried to understand this and the CSKA Sofia carry on a few times and have given up!!

Aye, I read a bit about cska sofia too bit it's very complicated, effectively there's two cska sofias in the top league in bulgaria, the politics in football in the eastern european countries is mental, the guy who bought steaua bucharest years ago wanted to change their name to his name, a guy called sergio becali I think, the fans obviously hated the idea so reformed the club and went back to its army roots, he changed the name to FCSB which is still his initials anyway lol so the actual steaua is csa steaua bucharest, will be interesting when they actually get back up to ligue1 in romania.

 

[VGM]

Steaua bucharest haven't won the Romanian top league since 2001, well FCSB in the top league are claiming to be the continuation of steaua bucharest but the real bucharest are currently in the liga 2 after starting over from the amateur leagues in romania a few years ago, they're currently in a legal dispute going through the courts in romania over who the trophies and history belongs to, read about it all a while ago very interesting, most people probably don't know that FCSB in the top league in romania are not the actual steaua bucharest.

I think UEFA recognise FCSB as the original Steaua?

Might be wrong.

 

[Daljam]

I think UEFA recognise FCSB as the original Steaua?

Might be wrong.

It's complicated to say the least but if you look up csa steaua bucharest on Wikipedia all their honours are listed including the European Cup they won in 87 I think it was, there's a court case about it all that's still ongoing as far as I'm aware.

 

[HandsomeHead]

Newcastle for me, just because they’ve won %^*& all for so long now, they have to be up there for longest barren stretch / size. (Only counting top flight leagues or cups) the Arabs will help fix that though

Why are Newcastle seen as being big?

They haven’t won a league title since 1927 and the FA Cup since 1957. Their last major honour was the Fairs Cup back in 1969.

Aside from a brief period in the mid ‘90s they’ve been an also ran in English football throughout my entire life (I’m 52).

 

[VGM]

It's complicated to say the least but if you look up csa steaua bucharest on Wikipedia all their honours are listed including the European Cup they won in 87 I think it was, there's a court case about it all that's still ongoing as far as I'm aware.

Just reading that now.

Christ.

The sevcoholics of Romania would have a field day.

 

[Garrison Defender]

Hope it's Frankfurt as I have a profound dislike for them. If they hadn't put us out in 1960 the "Greatest ever European Final" and the Highest attended record would have easily been broken.

 

[VGM]

It's complicated to say the least but if you look up csa steaua bucharest on Wikipedia all their honours are listed including the European Cup they won in 87 I think it was, there's a court case about it all that's still ongoing as far as I'm aware.

The courts apparently consider all the honours won pre 1998 to belong to CSA, but it changes all the time and UEFA consider FC FCSB as being the original club.

 

[Rangerista]

Newcastle United must be in with a shout. Only won the league once since the First World War and that was in the 20s. Havent won the cup in 60+ years.

Since Newcastle won the Fairs Cup in 69, we've been in 3 European finals.

Yes, we should move to England.

 

[Daljam]

The courts apparently consider all the honours won pre 1998 to belong to CSA, but it changes all the time and UEFA consider FC FCSB as being the original club.

I think that because the honours won pre 1998 were as part of the army and wider sports portfolio of csa steaua then csa have a good claim to those honours, but ultimately it'll be up to the courts to decide, it's really interesting reading into it though as most people just think FCSB is steaua when there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[VGM]

I think that because the honours won pre 1998 were as part of the army and wider sports portfolio of csa steaua then csa have a good claim to those honours, but ultimately it'll be up to the courts to decide, it's really interesting reading into it though as most people just think FCSB is steaua when there's a lot more to it than that.

And I fucking love Gigi Becali.

 

[Rangerista]

Steaua bucharest haven't won the Romanian top league since 2001, well FCSB in the top league are claiming to be the continuation of steaua bucharest but the real bucharest are currently in the liga 2 after starting over from the amateur leagues in romania a few years ago, they're currently in a legal dispute going through the courts in romania over who the trophies and history belongs to, read about it all a while ago very interesting, most people probably don't know that FCSB in the top league in romania are not the actual steaua bucharest.

. . . . "curve ball" officially thrown into the thread.

 

[Wazza]

Why are Newcastle seen as being big?

They haven’t won a league title since 1927 and the FA Cup since 1957. Their last major honour was the Fairs Cup back in 1969.

Aside from a brief period in the mid ‘90s they’ve been an also ran in English football throughout my entire life (I’m 52).

Attendances this last 25/30 years I would say.

Many Clubs have been mentioned here who haven’t had anything near what they’ve had to be fair. At an educated guess I expect a Club like Atletico Madrid has a lesser average this last 30 years odd and they’ve won La Liga 3 times in that time as well as winning a few Europa Leagues.

 

[gers1978]

In terms of what we consider a big club, i.e. as big as us (or even Celtic to be fair) none of the English clubs outside Liverpool, Man Utd and probably Arsenal come close.

 

[The Blue Viper]

Valencia have only won La Liga 6 times in their history.

 

[HandsomeHead]

Attendances this last 25/30 years I would say.

Many Clubs have been mentioned here who haven’t had anything near what they’ve had to be fair. At an educated guess I expect a Club like Atletico Madrid has a lesser average this last 30 years odd and they’ve won La Liga 3 times in that time as well as winning a few Europa Leagues.

They do have a big support, but surely that can’t be all that’s needed?

For example, Sunderland also have a big ground and a big support and have actually won more league titles than Newcastle, but does that qualify them for big club status?

My guess is that people remember the Newcastle team of the mid ‘90s being a force for a few years with players like Shearer, Asprilla and Ginola (despite the fact they didn’t actually win anything) but forget it really only lasted a very brief period of time and it was a whole quarter of a century ago now.

It’s like those who contend Leeds or Nottingham Forest are big clubs because they were successful for a few years back in the ‘70s.

 

[Bluebeard]

Bit off topic, I’ve always felt we should have had more than 1 European trophy to our name

Having played in five finals and won one I tend to agree. Although forever grateful for the one in 72.

Cannot imagine how bad it would feel to never have done it. It’s been hard enough accepting Seville and that it wasn’t ours when everything pointed towards us doing it.

 

[Wazza]

I

They do have a big support, but surely that can’t be all that’s needed?

For example, Sunderland also have a big ground and a big support and have actually won more league titles than Newcastle, but does that qualify them for big club status?

My guess is that people remember the Newcastle team of the mid ‘90s being a force for a few years with players like Shearer, Asprilla and Ginola (despite the fact they didn’t actually win anything) but forget it really only lasted a very brief period of time and it was a whole quarter of a century ago now.

It’s like those who contend Leeds or Nottingham Forest are big clubs because they were successful for a few years back in the ‘70s.

Personally I’ll always look at sustained averages for it myself, I don’t disregard trophies but actual support is miles more important. Both Sunderland and Newcastle have big and good support. Why when this comes up regarding Germany I’ll always point to member numbers as for many being a member each year is more like a donation as they don’t get much back in return in most cases (and a certain % are also supporting the Club by being season ticket holders), 160k at Schalke is unreal really.

Lots of other factors mind, how many people a Club employs, how big the Club is regarding tourism to the City look at how important Messi was to Barcelona for example on that front. If Newcastle got another Gazza now the shirt sales would be bloody crackers.

 

[Daljam]

Having played in five finals and won one I tend to agree. Although forever grateful for the one in 72.

Cannot imagine how bad it would feel to neber have done it. It’s been hard enough accepting Seville and that it wasn’t ours when everything pointed towards us doing it.

I like to look positively at something like this, law of averages and all, can see us making another final in the next 15 years and winning it, and if its the conference league it would be the biggest achievement of any Scottish club ever.

 

[Bluebeard]

I like to look positively at something like this, law of averages and all, can see us making another final in the next 15 years and winning it, and if its the conference league it would be the biggest achievement of any Scottish club ever.

Any win would be. Don’t necessarily see the law of averages panning out though mate. Just look at the buffalo bills!

Thanks to the Barcelona bears we don’t have to suffer that feeling of five finals no wins.

I don’t think we celebrate them enough tbh.