Why dont we have any money?

[Simply a Bear]

Ben Davies is on around 25k a week. Think that says it all.

Totally forgot about him.

 

[Kinghornloyal]

We’d have had plenty had we not folded the league challenge.

It’s just one of many reasons why yesterday hurts. It’ll haunt us for years to come if and when they win the league

We wouldn't have had plenty immediately. You do get the CL money upfront.

 

[Bigbluebear]

We do have money. Unfortunately our direct opposition has more.

Plus we have massive wastage in the squad at the moment.

Davies
Roofe
Matondo

That's the guts of £5m a year for virtually no contribution over the course of the season. Matondo has made some impact this season but for the outlay it's not value for money.

Plus we then have guys like Borna who have checked out, Jack who's never available, Lundstram appears to have checked out. Goldson on massive money and his mobility has fallen off a cliff.

The waste at the moment is unreal.

 

[Hooty]

People need to remember how much money our backers put in to fund Warburton near the end, Pedro, and Gerrard. We signed a lot of players during that time and made next to no money in player sales.

That was always going to catch up with us. Gio probably felt the effect more than anyone because he was given %^*& all.

Now we have repeated the mistakes with Beale, in that he was given money to spend and apparently hasn’t spent it wisely. We just don’t earn enough as a club to make those mistakes.

 

[Virgil Hilts]

Really bad player trading model.

 

[Bigbluebear]

NEH didn't come from the playing budget. It's nonsense to say that. Ifnwe hadn't built NEH it didn't mean the £10m was being spent on transfers.

There is zero guarantee with any transfers. Every season if we bring in 6 players 2 will probably work out. 4 will struggle. Its always been that way.

FFP rules exclude infrastructure spending. People don't seem to realise that and think we would have just spent on players instead

We have plenty of players. The money is just being wasted.

 

[Kinghornloyal]

FFP rules exclude infrastructure spending. People don't seem to realise that and think we would have just spent on players instead

We have plenty of players. The money is just being wasted.

Correct. We spend within our budget. Just hasn't been good enough. Same thing will happen all over again if Clements signings don't work.

 

[Thomas Milton]

Due to mismanagement by the Board. The Board have failed at “football operations” since Gerrard and Mark Allen left.

Continuous negligence in the appointment of managers and football staff have resulted in substandard recruitment and a massive wage bill.

But when you see the level of questions at our AGM it’s no wonder they get away with it

Probably why the MD, Chairman, manager and director of football have been shipped out in the last 12 months..

I’m all for moaning but pretending nothing has changed is for the birds. There has been a massive changing of the guard - let’s see what they do this summer.

 

[Hawkhead Ger]

Is this a serious question?

 

[RossS1872]

Our wage bill is absolutely ridiculous and we don't get nearly as much out of what we put in. It's easy to blame things like Edmiston House but I don't actually have an issue with things at the stadium and training ground that need done. The problem is the amount of guys we pay significant amounts of money to, to just continuously be disappointments

 

[NFTG]

People need to remember how much money our backers put in to fund Warburton near the end, Pedro, and Gerrard. We signed a lot of players during that time and made next to no money in player sales.

That was always going to catch up with us. Gio probably felt the effect more than anyone because he was given %^*& all.

Now we have repeated the mistakes with Beale, in that he was given money to spend and apparently hasn’t spent it wisely. We just don’t earn enough as a club to make those mistakes.

Goldson and Tavernier were given extensions when Gio was in charge

It was said at the time they would be cheap but Jack, Davis and McGregor signed contracts during their time with us

It is proper football board talk, but in this day and age an extension is fundamentally a new signing as the wage could have been spent on another player

As well as that we had the likes of Kent, Morelos, Lundstram on the books, it was by no means a cheap team to begin with even prior to the spend.

Our greatest cost is wages, that team had a lot of big wage earners

 

[MartinS93]

Unfortunately the majority were haply he resigned. Also meant not paying millions to buy a new player.

People also saying let everyone out of contract go. That's all well and good but how do we replace them with better quality with limited resources. Saving their wages doesn't put £20m in our accounts to actually buy players.

I will also add that fans won't accept 4 or 5 20 year old that may have potential as it won't lead to immediate success.

But that's where a competent board need to step in and make the difficult call to release him. Boardroom/scouting team need to see the bigger picture the fans simply can't.

Are you suggesting keeping these same players that have proved time after time, after time, after time that they don't have it?

But you think the fans will have more patience for the same players letting us down every season?

Something has to change. Start with the same players who have proved they don't have it.

 

[No Money No Problems]

Just got to hope and pray that Nils Koppen can actually make a tangible difference and contribution to our whole recruitment strategy.

Bring in young talent who we can develop and improve and then sell on for a healthy profit. Overpaying in fees and wages for Championship players is just not sustainable for a club like ours.

 

[Novichok]

NEH didn't come from the playing budget. It's nonsense to say that. Ifnwe hadn't built NEH it didn't mean the £10m was being spent on transfers.

There is zero guarantee with any transfers. Every season if we bring in 6 players 2 will probably work out. 4 will struggle. Its always been that way.

It's not nonsense to say that. I understand some of the cash for NEH came from donations etc however the cost more than quadrupled, for various reasons, from the initial projections and revenue was spent on it. It all comes from the same pot. Had we not had that cost, it is not unreasonable to assume some of it may have been put towards players.

 

[Kinghornloyal]

But that's where a competent board need to step in and make the difficult call to release him. Boardroom/scouting team need to see the bigger picture the fans simply can't.

Are you suggesting keeping these same players that have proved time after time, after time, after time that they don't have it?

But you think the fans will have more patience for the same players letting us down every season?

Something has to change. Start with the same players who have proved they don't have it.

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm explaining that we don't have the resources to but 6 7 or 8 starters of better quality whether anyone likes it or not. Players need retained at certain times. Jack for the Scotland quota etc. Goldson would cost what to replace at the time. We spent £4m on Davies probably to be a first pick. It hasnt worked. We won't be able to change much in the current playing squad. Nobody will want to take any of them off our hands. Why would they

 

[Kinghornloyal]

It's not nonsense to say that. I understand some of the cash for NEH came from donations etc however the cost more than quadrupled, for various reasons, from the initial projections and revenue was spent on it. It all comes from the same pot. Had we not had that cost, it is not unreasonable to assume some of it may have been put towards players.

Again it is nonsense. The money that was spent as posted above doesn't become part of FFP so what was spent doesn't impact player sales. E wpuldnt have spent that money on players as FFP couldnt allow us to. The cost went up but it didn't quadruple

 

[lg1991]

Tav
Goldson
Lundstrum
Davies
Matondo
Roofe
Borna
Lawrence
Dessers
Lammers
Raskin
Dowell


Average salary for those 12 is over £20k per week, so that's ~£250k per week on wages. £12m a year we are paying for that dross.

Ross Wilson/Michael Beale left us in a mess.

 

[FDB1978]

NEH didn't come from the playing budget. It's nonsense to say that. Ifnwe hadn't built NEH it didn't mean the £10m was being spent on transfers.

There is zero guarantee with any transfers. Every season if we bring in 6 players 2 will probably work out. 4 will struggle. Its always been that way.

Total cost of NEH was around £12m to generate £29k a year profit which pretty much sums up our board.

We’ll be paying the £12m loan it took to build back over the next several years which will eat into our transfer budget going forward.

I like NEH but was it a priority in our position? Even if that money wasn’t spent on players it should have been used to increase capacity which would have brought in a lot more money short term.

 

[mustn’t grumble]

Im always hearing we have no money but it doesnt add up. We have some decent sales in recent years and our best european performances consistently for years. If we have no money now we never will. Imagine a poor year in europe. Where does that leave us. At what point does it change or is it permanent

We have eye watering negative retained earnings. Not a great KPI for financial health

 

[Dado_Prso_9]

Because we spend big on rubbish and renew contracts for silly money to players who should be let go.

Hopefully we’ve told Lundstram that we can’t renew on his current terms and he’s looking elsewhere for a final big payday.

 

[FrazzGers]

If the sources are accurate;

Goldson- £37k
Tav - £30k
Davies and Dessers - £27k
Danilo and Roofe - £26k
Butland - £25k
Matondo - £23k

2 highest earners are past their sell by date. Then you have three players in there who are either injured or non existent.
Dessers and Matondo. Nothing to add to what’s already been said there.
So out of that only Butland is worth his wage.

Add into the fact we sounded the best part of £15M(?) on Dessers, Danilo and Lammers this summer
Close to the same or less in Yilmaz, Matondo and Davies last summer.

We had the money to spend. We’ve spent it poorly. If you continue to invest money in a business with piss poor returns you’ll eventually reach a point where you’ll have less and less to spend.

 

[Stevie13000]

Going to be an uphill battle even more so now if we’ve handed them this title.

Probably be last chance to reel them in for a few years in all honesty. Just being realistic

Have to agree, we will be in their shadow for years if they go on and win the league which looks a distinct possibility.

The team that spends the most money ultimately wins the most trophies.

 

[Kinghornloyal]

Total cost of NEH was around £12m to generate £29k a year profit which pretty much sums up our board.

We’ll be paying the £12m loan it took to build back over the next several years which will eat into our transfer budget going forward.

I like NEH but was it a priority in our position? Even if that money wasn’t spent on players it should have been used to increase capacity which would have brought in a lot more money short term.

That's not how it works. The revenue will seriously increase. Building it has zero to do with the playing squad or budgets and transfers. We have £15m in loans to pay back to the chairman. We are using funds to increase capacity. And new disabled section. £12m wouldn't change the capacity by much

 

[Maughlan]

Probably why the MD, Chairman, manager and director of football have been shipped out in the last 12 months..

I’m all for moaning but pretending nothing has changed is for the birds. There has been a massive changing of the guard - let’s see what they do this summer.

Agreed. I’m of the same opinion. However I would say Bennett’s chairmanship to date has been underwhelming in terms of his communication of strategy to move the club forward. Bisgrove has neither demonstrated any clear vision so far.

If it’s more of the same, ie soft loans, invest in players and hope for the best then that’s a lottery.

 

[govanfront85]

We did actually spend money last summer, with varying degrees of failure:

1 bombed out on loan
1 injured for the majority of the season, our biggest outlay in years
1 who can’t be relied on to cut it when we need him the most.

If just one of those forward signings had worked out this season would probably be looking vastly different than it does just now.

2 bombed out on loan.

Lammers and cifuentes

 

[Kinghornloyal]

If the sources are accurate;

Goldson- £37k
Tav - £30k
Davies and Dessers - £27k
Danilo and Roofe - £26k
Butland - £25k
Matondo - £23k

2 highest earners are past their sell by date. Then you have three players in there who are either injured or non existent.
Dessers and Matondo. Nothing to add to what’s already been said there.
So out of that only Butland is worth his wage.

Add into the fact we sounded the best part of £15M(?) on Dessers, Danilo and Lammers this summer
Close to the same or less in Yilmaz, Matondo and Davies last summer.

We had the money to spend. We’ve spent it poorly. If you continue to invest money in a business with piss poor returns you’ll eventually reach a point where you’ll have less and less to spend.

7 of the players have contracts on those wages so will still be here next year. Its what we are dealing with. Unless we hoodwink some teams

 

[Novichok]

FFP rules exclude infrastructure spending. People don't seem to realise that and think we would have just spent on players instead

We have plenty of players. The money is just being wasted.

FFP looks at accumulative loses over a period. The question was what happened to the money we brought in when we made the record turnover. FFP doesn't stop clubs from spending actual cash on players provided you aren't making an accumulated lose over the last three years.

It's not true to just say FFP stopped us. Do you not think the club would have made this clear at AGM had it been restrictive?

I agree the money that we have spent has been wasted.

 

[gu_bear]

As of January we still had 3 management teams on the wage bill.

That’s staggeringly incompetent and massively problematic to get in that position.

From memory our player wage bill is slightly lower than Celtic’s but our overall staff costs are higher with the above problem being a key factor.

 

[Fife Bear]

Massive wage bill on overpaid losers who cant win the league and deliver champions league football would be my guess.

 

[MartinS93]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm explaining that we don't have the resources to but 6 7 or 8 starters of better quality whether anyone likes it or not. Players need retained at certain times. Jack for the Scotland quota etc. Goldson would cost what to replace at the time. We spent £4m on Davies probably to be a first pick. It hasnt worked. We won't be able to change much in the current playing squad. Nobody will want to take any of them off our hands. Why would they

All of this is simply an example of the horrendous running of the club. That's the bigger issue.

The scum lost the league to us and shifted 30 players out the door. 30. And were able to bring in better. Much better.

Whereas our attitude is, its just a wee bit too hard/risky.

It’s laziness.

 

[Fife Bear]

As of January we still had 3 management teams on the wage bill.

That’s staggeringly incompetent and massively problematic to get in that position.

From memory our player wage bill is slightly lower than Celtic’s but our overall staff costs are higher with the above problem being a key factor.

Pretty sure when Beale took the Sunderland job means we no longer have to pay him.

 

[Glasgowisblue]

Davies has not been a good signing - but £25k p/w gets you a standard/mediocre Championship player and that's exactly what he is.

We really need to stop buying players from the English lower leugues that still demand wages that 10 years ago only the top players would command ..... very rarely do you get value for money...plenty of good scottish players that we could of got for far less wages ...

 

[Novichok]

Again it is nonsense. The money that was spent as posted above doesn't become part of FFP so what was spent doesn't impact player sales. E wpuldnt have spent that money on players as FFP couldnt allow us to. The cost went up but it didn't quadruple

That's just not correct. It is still money that has been spent and is no longer there whether it counts towards FFP or not. Of course it impacts the cash position.

The initial cost to the club was 2.5m plus 2.5m coming in from the sale of the car park that fell through. So 2.5m cost. What was the total cost then? Its been reported at circa 10m. A 4 times increase from 2.5m.

 

[gu_bear]

Pretty sure when Beale took the Sunderland job means we no longer have to pay him.

That’s not the case.

He was still entitled to his full pay out.

 

[Ranger1003]

When you have 5-6 players on 30k a week its a lot of money

 

[Kinghornloyal]

That's just not correct. It is still money that has been spent and is no longer there whether it counts towards FFP or not. Of course it impacts the cash position.

The initial cost to the club was 2.5m plus 2.5m coming in from the sale of the car park that fell through. So 2.5m cost. What was the total cost then? Its been reported at circa 10m. A 4 times increase from 2.5m.

Yes bit we got outside investment. If we don't build it we wouldn't have looked for the extra money. So it wouldn't have been sitting there for transfers

 

[No Pyro No Party]

We got involved with cryptocurrency/NFT scammers who promised money for sponsorship etc but who went bust.

 

[albop]

Ben Davies is on around 25k a week. Think that says it all.

Aye and cost the guts of 4m when he never played in months

 

[KensingtonBlue]

Beale wasted millions. But he was a symptom, not the disease.

The main disease being an inept an amateurly run club from top to bottom with zero forward planning in any department. No structure, no strategy, no plan. Winging it season to season, manager to manager, no succession planning or transfer strategy. We then overpay for duds, panic buy, let our best assets run down their contracts, and then have to pay millions to get rid of inept management teams. And wonder why we're skint? A total clusterfuck

 

[Centralbear]

Our wage bill is ridiculous for players who on the whole haven't won much.

Our wage bill, realistically should be at least £10m lower and could be achieved by a combination of not overpaying certain players and by not having a ridiculous amount unavailable for the majority of the season through injury.

It is this waste which severely restricts our ability to purchase any sort of quality each close season, in addition to our overpaying for too many players, most recently the likes of Lammers, Dessers, Davies to name but three, an example of around £12m with little or no benefit on the pitch.

 

[Novichok]

Our wage bill is absolutely ridiculous and we don't get nearly as much out of what we put in. It's easy to blame things like Edmiston House but I don't actually have an issue with things at the stadium and training ground that need done. The problem is the amount of guys we pay significant amounts of money to, to just continuously be disappointments

I'm not "blaming" NEH. It's an answer to the question raised. That is where some of the money brought in from recent successes has gone. I have no really issues with the money spent on it at all.

As has been said, the biggest problem is our management of the squad ie Kent and Morelos leaving for nothing, giving players increased deals rather then selling and replacing and poor recruitment.

 

[Kinghornloyal]

All of this is simply an example of the horrendous running of the club. That's the bigger issue.

The scum lost the league to us and shifted 30 players out the door. 30. And were able to bring in better. Much better.

Whereas our attitude is, its just a wee bit too hard/risky.

It’s laziness.

The have spent over £80m since postecoglou came into the club until now. We aren't anywhere near that financially so guess what we will remain mile's behind. We can't spend big on transfers so we look at put of contract players and give them high wages to get them to sign. The seriously worrying alternative is just bring in young players and allow them to progress. Guess what the fans will never be happy with that. They putspend us so we need a miracle really

 

[Kinghornloyal]

Our wage bill is ridiculous for players who on the whole haven't won much.

Our wage bill, realistically should be at least £10m lower and could be achieved by a combination of not overpaying certain players and by not having a ridiculous amount unavailable for the majority of the season through injury.

It is this waste which severely restricts our ability to purchase any sort of quality each close season, in addition to our overpaying for too many players, most recently the likes of Lammers, Dessers, Davies to name but three, an example of around £12m with little or no benefit on the pitch.

Injuries cannot be helped. No matter what anyone says about pur medical team. We as I have said can't match them in buying power but are happy to get players on higher wages or they wouldn't come.

 

[FDB1978]

That's not how it works. The revenue will seriously increase. Building it has zero to do with the playing squad or budgets and transfers. We have £15m in loans to pay back to the chairman. We are using funds to increase capacity. And new disabled section. £12m wouldn't change the capacity by much

The net capacity increase from the cantilever will be 600. That’s in no way shape or form going to close the financial gap on the yahoos.

We should have used the NEH money to increase capacity to around the 55/56k mark.

 

[Midfield General]

Im always hearing we have no money but it doesnt add up. We have some decent sales in recent years and our best european performances consistently for years. If we have no money now we never will. Imagine a poor year in europe. Where does that leave us. At what point does it change or is it permanent

It will only change if we have regular participation in the CL or continually get in to the latter stages of the Europa.That and digging up some gems and sell a player or two a season.
There is no money to be made in the SPFL with the piss poor TV and sponsorship revenue.
That is the reason the mhanks are in a relatively strong position but take a few seasons CL money away they would be in the position we are now.

 

[Weedoddieno6]

Really bad player trading model.

Really bad manager model

 

[Kinghornloyal]

The net capacity increase from the cantilever will be 600. That’s in no way shape or form going to close the financial gap on the yahoos.

We should have used the NEH money to increase capacity to around the 55/56k mark.

Aparantly it would take upwards of £30m to get that capacity. NEH wouldn't have covered that.

 

[albop]

Unfortunately the majority were haply he resigned. Also meant not paying millions to buy a new player.

People also saying let everyone out of contract go. That's all well and good but how do we replace them with better quality with limited resources. Saving their wages doesn't put £20m in our accounts to actually buy players.

I will also add that fans won't accept 4 or 5 20 year old that may have potential as it won't lead to immediate success.

Lundstram was signed for free all be it he got a signing on fee
Sakala was free fir all he wasn't perfect he had pace Butland was also a bosman

Signing a few after sales and getting a couple of decent loan deals

 

[the architect]

We aren’t skint but we have an approx amount that we can spend, that tends to look like £15m or there abouts.

Unfortunately that money was wasted in the summer.

We also need to start selling when players value is at its peak. That means this summer we need to sell Butland and more than likely Tav to help rebuild the squad.

I’m pretty certain with the wages freed up from OOC players and sales of others on top of our general £15m we could build a squad capable of winning the league.

There’s a few in the squad just now good enough if they had the right people around them.

 

[Kinghornloyal]

Lundstram was signed for free all be it he got a signing on fee
Sakala was free fir all he wasn't perfect he had pace Butland was also a bosman

Signing a few after sales and getting a couple of decent loan deals

We are losing 6 or 7 players out of contract. If we sell a couple that's 9 to replace. Also Silva and maybe Cortez not coming back. That's 11 players with probably £15m budget if we are lucky. Also take £4.3m off that for Diomande so £10m or so ti replace 11 players. Won't happen this summer