Scotland u21 vs England u21 - Toulon Tournament Semi Final

Burt was poor, Gilmour was excellent.

Wrong one went to Chelsea!
 
Didn't watch the game, but seen young Arsenal striker Eddie Nketiah got 2 goals. Anyone see how he got on?

I know we don't want too many loan players, but he could be 1 to keep an eye on if Arsenal let him out. Highly rated, on fringes of first team, came in and scored a double in the league cup last season.
 
Sebo23 said:
Didn't watch the game, but seen young Arsenal striker Eddie Nketiah got 2 goals. Anyone see how he got on?

I know we don't want too many loan players, but he could be 1 to keep an eye on if Arsenal let him out. Highly rated, on fringes of first team, came in and scored a double in the league cup last season.
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Scored his goals with an aplomb, and looked like a dangerous player when he was on the ball.
A player who made an impact on the game and stood out.
 
Gramps1 said:
Regarding Gilmour

With Gerrard watching him what’s the chances of getting bim on loan?
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He is still a bit off from playing first-team football for Rangers.
He is a player who needs to be nurtured with an introduction into first-team football under a controlled situation, a substitution here, a game here etc.
I don't think we are in a strong enough position to offer this.
 
Sebo23 said:
Didn't watch the game, but seen young Arsenal striker Eddie Nketiah got 2 goals. Anyone see how he got on?

I know we don't want too many loan players, but he could be 1 to keep an eye on if Arsenal let him out. Highly rated, on fringes of first team, came in and scored a double in the league cup last season.
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2nd half(all I watched) :Like a professional playing in an amateur game.

Put simply, the quality of football in the Scotland team(and some England to be fair) was so low that any time this player came on the ball the game came alive.
 
The England team looked so much bigger and stronger. Gilmour showed some really good quality though.

Lewis Cook and Ronaldo Vieira ran the show 2nd half and the big striker up front was far too good for the Scottish defence.
 
bilkobear said:
He is still a bit off from playing first-team football for Rangers.
He is a player who needs to be nurtured with an introduction into first-team football under a controlled situation, a substitution here, a game here etc.
I don't think we are in a strong enough position to offer this.
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Correct mate. He said in a recent interview that his plan for next season and beyond (presumably agreed with Chelsea) was to challenge for a place in Chelsea’s U23s Champions League squad (not the team interestingly) next season and then go out on loan the season after. The latter part would, I think, involve him signing an extended contract at Chelsea. He’s and the club seem to have a clear plan in mind.
 
Rfc loyal said:
So a big big no no for us even if we were ever interested in him?
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I’d go as far as saying he was the worst player on the pitch tonight. He was awful. One run in first half, otherwise nothing at all. Seems to run out of pitch constantly. Maybe needs a sport with a bigger field. Cricket perhaps?
 
Diego Maradona said:
I’d go as far as saying he was the worst player on the pitch tonight. He was awful. One run in first half, otherwise nothing at all. Seems to run out of pitch constantly. Maybe needs a sport with a bigger field. Cricket perhaps?
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And to think he cost £15mil
 
Getting to the semi finals is a decent achivement, Gilmour looks a player, england too strong going forward with that arsenal lad running riot especially against ralston
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Correct mate. He said in a recent interview that his plan for next season and beyond (presumably agreed with Chelsea) was to challenge for a place in Chelsea’s U23s Champions League squad (not the team interestingly) next season and then go out on loan the season after. The latter part would, I think, involve him signing an extended contract at Chelsea. He’s and the club seem to have a clear plan in mind.
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This is almost bang on
Needs more experience playing against more physical players an to fill out
Maybe a stone or so heavier

Only thing though

Lampard an Morris going to Derby
Every chance he could be fast tracked to championship level

I think he should keep doing what he’s doing in an around the chelsea academy
He’s clearly flourishing

An proved he can mix it at under 21 level
He deserves at least to stay in an around the squad
 
Same old , same old for Scotland.

As long as I have been watching football in Scotland and playing when I was younger, NOTHING has changed in decades.

Watching one Scotland side whether they by under 15' of the senior side, there have been the same failings for years and years.

Vast majority of Scottish players are not comfortable with a football. Their touch and control is very poor and their composure is almost non-existent. Generally their first thought is to get rid of the ball - anywhere. It's just shocking and has been like that for decades.

No-one seems capable of changing this tragic situation. And schools clearly still have PE football which involves charging about and seeing who can be the hardest in the tackle with absolutely no emphasis on skill and technique.

Scottish football still living in the dark ages and going nowhere.
 
Chester Perry said:
A point raised by Craig Mulholland, for years Rangers went for the big physical lads and bheast F.C. the technical players. Roles are now reversed and it’s Rangers who have players on ability
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Agreed. You saw exactly that is this year’s cup final.

The bheasts were definitely physically bigger than us. We had better ball players though and won.
 
Business_Bear said:
The England team looked so much bigger and stronger. Gilmour showed some really good quality though.

Lewis Cook and Ronaldo Vieira ran the show 2nd half and the big striker up front was far too good for the Scottish defence.
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It wasn’t just their speed and size, though. They controlled the ball better, passed the ball better and moved into position better. Those are all things that can be taught.

It was actually embarrassing watching our centre halves just hump the ball upfield every time they touched it. Lost possession every time. No thoughts at all of playing it to a team mate. Just blooter it away.
 
Arminius said:
It wasn’t just their speed and size, though. They controlled the ball better, passed the ball better and moved into position better. Those are all things that can be taught.

It was actually embarrassing watching our centre halves just hump the ball upfield every time they touched it. Lost possession every time. No thoughts at all of playing it to a team mate. Just blooter it away.
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This in buckets.

Scottish players are generally poor on the ball and are always shown up against other teams.

The basics of football - touch, control, composure, passing - ALL sadly lacking and have been for decades.

We seem to have this mentality in Scotland that if you can charge about, tackle as hard as f.uck and clear the ball anywhere at every opportunity, then you are a footballer.

We have our priorities ALL wrong where the emphasis continues to be on the 'physical' side , power and tackling and not on technique and the finer aspects of the game which so many countries are ahead of us and why they do so much better.

It's actually quite shocking that we still have this mindset and clearly it is embedded in grass roots.
 
MoodyBlue1872 said:
Same old , same old for Scotland.

As long as I have been watching football in Scotland and playing when I was younger, NOTHING has changed in decades.

Watching one Scotland side whether they by under 15' of the senior side, there have been the same failings for years and years.

Vast majority of Scottish players are not comfortable with a football. Their touch and control is very poor and their composure is almost non-existent. Generally their first thought is to get rid of the ball - anywhere. It's just shocking and has been like that for decades.

No-one seems capable of changing this tragic situation. And schools clearly still have PE football which involves charging about and seeing who can be the hardest in the tackle with absolutely no emphasis on skill and technique.

Scottish football still living in the dark ages and going nowhere.
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It drives me insane. It's clear to see that the coaching is the issue but those in charge don't have the foresight to employ people (at all levels, but particularly youth development) with a different skill set.

Time and again we go back to Billy Stark, Scott Gemmil and Malky McKay (or even the likes of Ricky Sbragia!)

We should look to employ a team of experts from Germany or Holland who can revolutionise the game in this country.
 
The two center halves were terrible and our striker was more a center midfielder...England were too good but we had no out ball in the second half.......
 
Laudrup1 said:
It drives me insane. It's clear to see that the coaching is the issue but those in charge don't have the foresight to employ people (at all levels, but particularly youth development) with a different skill set.

Time and again we go back to Billy Stark, Scott Gemmil and Malky McKay (or even the likes of Ricky Sbragia!)

We should look to employ a team of experts from Germany or Holland who can revolutionise the game in this country.
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Absolutely mate. Frustrating as f.uck.

The coaching in Scotland is atrocious. That may be a sweeping statement - but the evidence clear for all to see and has been for as long as I can remember.

Are you big, are you strong, can you tackle hard, do you like being physical, can you blooter the ball away ? Ok - you're in.

The lack of technique and just doing the basics well is a shocking omission from the Scottish football landscape. It makes me laugh when people scratch their heads and wonder why Scotland haven't been to a tournament for 20 years. The grass roots is still f.ucked and only the odd one or two players sneek through and are able to let their talent shine.
 
I think good things are around the corner in this country, I see enough grassroots and pro youth games to see good technical players coming through. I think in 5-10 years we will be at a decent level.

Just my opinion mind.
 
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Quite clear that while football in general has evolved, the Scottish style of play has not. You can't even look in the direction of an opposing player without the ref giving a foul against you, so the players with greater technical ability will always run riot against those players whose sole ability is to be big, strong and athletic. Their only attributes are severely compromised by the changes to the rules.
 
MoodyBlue1872 said:
Absolutely mate. Frustrating as f.uck.

The coaching in Scotland is atrocious. That may be a sweeping statement - but the evidence clear for all to see and has been for as long as I can remember.

Are you big, are you strong, can you tackle hard, do you like being physical, can you blooter the ball away ? Ok - you're in.

The lack of technique and just doing the basics well is a shocking omission from the Scottish football landscape. It makes me laugh when people scratch their heads and wonder why Scotland haven't been to a tournament for 20 years. The grass roots is still f.ucked and only the odd one or two players sneek through and are able to let their talent shine.
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I actually think the refereeing is atrocious and I speak from experience at grassroots and professional levels.

Boys are being encouraged to play football and are getting halved in two by some fat farmers boy and not getting a foul. Next time the fat boy comes close to him, he's toe poking it away.

Look at our senior game where Murderwell basically bullied us in a semi. They wouldn't get away with it in Spain, Italy or even England, why is it acceptable here?

FIFA changed the rules to protect flare players, why are the SFA not implementing them to the letter of the law.
 
So the game went pretty much how I predicted it would earlier in the thread. England ended up too much for us in the physical stakes.

Also painful seeing Gilmour play so well, knowing what we could have had. Hopefully I'll get to cheer him on in Scotland colours for years to come.
 
Johnston looks a player going forward to be fair. Needs to learn the defensive side.

Gilmour is a class act. Maybe our best hope for a while, but still to be convinced he won’t end up another Ryan Gauld. At least he’s got the best opportunity possible at Chelsea.

Burke blows too hot and cold. At this stage in his career he should be the best player on the Park. Won’t live up to his potential. The archetypal young Scottish talent.

Everyone else was utter garbage. Especially Ralston. Special mention for the coaches though; it’s unforgivable we’re still stuck in the dark ages. When will we ever learn? The only tactical advice was to hoof it up to a useless front man. Pathetic all around.
 
BL11 said:
I actually think the refereeing is atrocious and I speak from experience at grassroots and professional levels.

Boys are being encouraged to play football and are getting halved in two by some fat farmers boy and not getting a foul. Next time the fat boy comes close to him, he's toe poking it away.

Look at our senior game where Murderwell basically bullied us in a semi. They wouldn't get away with it in Spain, Italy or even England, why is it acceptable here?

FIFA changed the rules to protect flare players, why are the SFA not implementing them to the letter of the law.
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Agreed mate.

It all comes down to the mentality where "getting stuck in hard" is at the top of the mindset in Scotland. And if that's on the cards then some will turn a blind eye to it.

Scotland is a horrible place to grow up as a player if you possess good technique, composure and a good touch and control and range of passing. You have to work doubly hard to get anywhere and get ahead of the hammer throwers.

The "football brain" in Scotland is not exactly a thing of greatness compared to other nations.

No-one outside of Scotland wants to watch Scottish football for a reason.
 
A lot of the fault for the poor standard of Scottish players lies with Jim Fleeting, whose in charge of coach development at the SFA.

Jim's key progression tactic in games is for the keeper to play the ball to his full backs, who then ping 60 yard balls 'into the channel' for runners to chase down.

Caveman football
 
GodStruth said:
A lot of the fault for the poor standard of Scottish players lies with Jim Fleeting, whose in charge of coach development at the SFA.

Jim's key progression tactic in games is for the keeper to play the ball to his full backs, who then ping 60 yard balls 'into the channel' for runners to chase down.

Caveman football
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A football in Scotland must spend more time in the air than it does in any other country in the world.
 
BL11 said:
I actually think the refereeing is atrocious and I speak from experience at grassroots and professional levels.

Boys are being encouraged to play football and are getting halved in two by some fat farmers boy and not getting a foul. Next time the fat boy comes close to him, he's toe poking it away.

Look at our senior game where Murderwell basically bullied us in a semi. They wouldn't get away with it in Spain, Italy or even England, why is it acceptable here?

FIFA changed the rules to protect flare players, why are the SFA not implementing them to the letter of the law.
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Because the sfa and referees are biased.

I dont really agree i think the standard is fine but a lot of referees enjoy cheating Rangers and they do it by letting the opposition get stuck in and allowing nasty challenges to go. Its nothing new one ref done it for 15 seasons in a row and hes quite popular too.

Motherwell didnt play the same way against Celtic, as the ref, any ref young or experienced, would never allow it to happen his career would be as good as over if he ignored the old wimbledon crazy gang tactics, press would make sure of it.
 
MoodyBlue1872 said:
Agreed mate.

It all comes down to the mentality where "getting stuck in hard" is at the top of the mindset in Scotland. And if that's on the cards then some will turn a blind eye to it.

Scotland is a horrible place to grow up as a player if you possess good technique, composure and a good touch and control and range of passing. You have to work doubly hard to get anywhere and get ahead of the hammer throwers.

The "football brain" in Scotland is not exactly a thing of greatness compared to other nations.

No-one outside of Scotland wants to watch Scottish football for a reason.
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Its the same thing that comes up whenever Windass is discussed - some refuse to acknowledge his attributes because he doesn't run about like a headless chicken.

This is not me saying he's a great player, but I'll happily state he is a decent player who, with the right coaching has the potential to be a very good player.
 
TinyRick said:
Its the same thing that comes up whenever Windass is discussed - some refuse to acknowledge his attributes because he doesn't run about like a headless chicken.

This is not me saying he's a great player, but I'll happily state he is a decent player who, with the right coaching has the potential to be a very good player.
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Agreed mate. If you don't run about like a headless chicken and get pure stuck in hard then you're shite, in the mindset of many fans in Scotland.
 
KensingtonBlue said:
Johnston looks a player going forward to be fair. Needs to learn the defensive side.

Gilmour is a class act. Maybe our best hope for a while, but still to be convinced he won’t end up another Ryan Gauld. At least he’s got the best opportunity possible at Chelsea.

Burke blows too hot and cold. At this stage in his career he should be the best player on the Park. Won’t live up to his potential. The archetypal young Scottish talent.

Everyone else was utter garbage. Especially Ralston. Special mention for the coaches though; it’s unforgivable we’re still stuck in the dark ages. When will we ever learn? The only tactical advice was to hoof it up to a useless front man. Pathetic all around.
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Watched all three games and that about sums us up.

The big lad up top Hornby ,couldn't trap a bag of cement , fist touch was a 10 yard pass and useless in the air.

When your only tactic was to hit him with long balls you are already sunk.
 
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